Amtrak Empire Service (New York State)

StLouSteve wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 8:20 am Regarding replacing Albany LAB, perhaps during construction, Amtrak will have to use the freight bridge (Smith) and back down the B&A connection to access the station--like they did years ago with the Lake Shore Limited to Boston when the Post Road connection was torn out by PC. This move will require an engine change to switch directions to continue onward.

I did this move recently when Amtrak ran an Autumn Express up the West Shore, across Smith Bridge and then down the Hudson. Lots of rare miles.

From what I understand as the new bridge will be a lift span. The old bridge is to remain in service until the new is ready to be cut in. If LAB is taken OOS cant turn trains due to the way the new signals are set up. Everything will need diesels on either end.
Of course the Coast Guard will have a say in this so it remains to be seen how it will be handled.

Whatever happened to the plan to upgrade the line West of Schenectady for 100mph service.

edflyerssn007 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:44 pm Whatever happened to the plan to upgrade the line West of Schenectady for 100mph service.

There are a few miles just west of Schenectady that are currently 100 mph.

edflyerssn007 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:44 pm Whatever happened to the plan to upgrade the line West of Schenectady for 100mph service.

The track west from Schenectady to Hoffmans (CP169) has a MAS of 100mph. Anything west of CP169 is owned by CSX and they are not going to spend the $$$ to upgrade the tracks for Amtrak to run 100mph. Could NYS and the Feds step in and pony up the $$$$ and build a dedicated passenger main?? For eight trains a day I think there are better places to spend that type of cash. .

Is there not aspiration for high speed and/or hourly services from NYC/Albany to Buffalo? I would think that a faster service which connects quite a few decent sized cities could have a lot more potential. Lots of major universities across the route, for instance - and NYS tourism, business to Albany/NYC... all sorts of uses. It just needs to beat the car!

cle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:38 pm Is there not aspiration for high speed and/or hourly services from NYC/Albany to Buffalo? I would think that a faster service which connects quite a few decent sized cities could have a lot more potential. Lots of major universities across the route, for instance - and NYS tourism, business to Albany/NYC... all sorts of uses. It just needs to beat the car!

Even back in the day of the 20th skipped some pretty big cities across the state. I dont think the ridership is there for hourly service between Buffalo Syracuse Albany. I have never seen it to a point in my time on the Amtrak were it looked as though adding more service going west was an option. Trains have been taken off due to the lack of ridership. Patterns have changed through out the years but the counts have remained about the same or perhaps gotten smaller

I don't believe there's any goal of hourly service west of Albany. I do know the plan is to get to hourly service south of Albany (we're close now).

https://www.esparail.org/resources/huds ... -projects/ this isn't official, but I believe it's based on NYS goals.
So most plans west of Albany are 8 trains.

I'd still love the 125 mph plan, but I think at best we'll get the 110, but more likely 90A or B

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:13 pm I don't believe there's any goal of hourly service west of Albany. I do know the plan is to get to hourly service south of Albany (we're close now).

https://www.esparail.org/resources/huds ... -projects/ this isn't official, but I believe it's based on NYS goals.
So most plans west of Albany are 8 trains.

I'd still love the 125 mph plan, but I think at best we'll get the 110, but more likely 90A or B

We has a super in Albany 20 plus years ago who had and likely still has an hourly schedule drawn up for ALB NYP service. He was never able to get it up and running came close. As for speeds, the high speed rail gang just got in Monday morning from New Haven and should start work here pretty soon. Sounds like a couple of bridges need replacing and all the curves will be re banked and hopefully brought up from 80mph to 90mph. Plenty of stone in the yard in Rennselaer.

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:39 pm

cle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:38 pm Is there not aspiration for high speed and/or hourly services from NYC/Albany to Buffalo? I would think that a faster service which connects quite a few decent sized cities could have a lot more potential. Lots of major universities across the route, for instance - and NYS tourism, business to Albany/NYC... all sorts of uses. It just needs to beat the car!

Even back in the day of the 20th skipped some pretty big cities across the state. I dont think the ridership is there for hourly service between Buffalo Syracuse Albany. I have never seen it to a point in my time on the Amtrak were it looked as though adding more service going west was an option. Trains have been taken off due to the lack of ridership. Patterns have changed through out the years but the counts have remained about the same or perhaps gotten smaller

In 1938 the 20th Century Limited was R-only WB at Harmon, Albany, Syracuse and Buffalo; EB D-only at Albany and Harmon, no station stop anywhere else in NY state (worth noting it crossed Western NY at oh-dark-thirty for an 8 a.m. arrival at GCT). By 1956 the only upstate stop was Albany, R-only WB.

The Central ran a whole bunch of lesser trains that made more stops-- the Wolverine, Empire State Express, Commodore Vanderbilt, Southwestern Limited, Ohio State Limited, etc.-- but even in the heyday of the Great Steel Fleet I doubt there was true hourly daytime service between Albany and Buffalo even including some nameless mail-and-express locals that probably took 8 hours to cover the ~300mi.

I still think Amtrak and the states need to separate the LSL into two separate trains. A NYP-CHI making most of the current stops, and then the BOS-CHI as a separate train (running a few hours earlier or later) making other stops.
Would require more locomotives obviously but the current trainsets themselves could continue to be used.

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:23 pm I still think Amtrak and the states need to separate the LSL into two separate trains. A NYP-CHI making most of the current stops, and then the BOS-CHI as a separate train (running a few hours earlier or later) making other stops.
Would require more locomotives obviously but the current trainsets themselves could continue to be used.

Currently there isn't the equipment to do so. Whilst working a yard job in Albany I have seen many a long distance coach tacked onto the rear of the LSL going to Beech Groove for refurbishment. I shan't get into the reasons why... Lets just say cold and water don't mix.

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:23 pm I still think Amtrak and the states need to separate the LSL into two separate trains. A NYP-CHI making most of the current stops, and then the BOS-CHI as a separate train (running a few hours earlier or later) making other stops.
Would require more locomotives obviously but the current trainsets themselves could continue to be used.

At one time did agreed. Now not so much . It is better to combine so the number of non revenue cars can be minimized. That is until some arbitrary number of cars cause too much operational problems at stops. If the equipment was available the Florida trains might be the first to need splits Ville.

Hourly service west of Albany is probably a bit on the overkill side, at least throughout a lot of the day. However, hourly service below Albany is in the cards in the future. I think the bulk of the people who ride the Empire Corridor are traveling between Albany and NYC as well as from the intermediate stations like Hudson and Rhinecliff. There is a lot of travel from NYP, CRT, and ALB as well. Plenty of people make daytrips from ALB, HUD, and RHI to NYC as well as business travelers. As for the speeds west of Hoffmans, if they can get 90 mph running consistently, that would be a start. At the maximum, we would see 110 mph.

As Ive said above mo way CSX upgrades their tracks to 90MAS forget 110. Separate passenger mains it can be done it was a 4 track main >70 years ago. Who has the money??? Not the state of New York. The Fed? Cant keep spending money like a drunk sailor on shore leave. Private investment?? Brightline?? Nah there isn't enough crumbs left off the cake.

Work for Amtrak and I would love to see more trains. That equals more work, more jobs for the younger guys to hold instead of being stuck on the extra list forever and having a little better quality of life. (Still better than freight) Nothing like having that unexpected phone call at 0230 when your kid has been up sick and you cant mark off cause if you do you break your guarantee. Anyway I digress, as it stands now if we went back to a pre covid schedule in Albany tomorrow. We would not have the equipment nor the manpower to run them.

Ridgefielder wrote:-- but even in the heyday of the Great Steel Fleet I doubt there was true hourly daytime service between Albany and Buffalo even including some nameless mail-and-express locals that probably took 8 hours to cover the ~300mi.

Yet again a good reminder that Amtrak's ridership levels come close to or have surpassed the legacy era.



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