Reroute the Crescent via Montgomery, Mobile for Atlanta station?

I'm curious what everyone here thinks about rerouting the Crescent in order to better serve Atlanta? The issue right now is Atlanta's station is very inadequate, both for current and future service, but there are limited places to put a station in Atlanta. I've uploaded a map, originally from GDOT, that shows the track layout in Atlanta. It's still pretty accurate except all the belts except the "Inman Belt" are mostly unusable** the whole area around "Bellwood Yard" is gone, and the tail track behind Howells Yard is mostly out of service. Current plans are still looking at either a "gulch" station or an airport station. The "gulch" area is right there in the middle, to the left and below the "A" in Atlanta. This map isn't really to scale so that area is bigger than it looks. However, a private group has begun redeveloping that area. Whether or not they will leave space for an actual train station is unknown at this point. The airport station would likely be just to the left of "Hartsfield" down there near the bottom. However, if one or both were chosen as stations, that poses a problem for the Crescent. **Eventually, the Crescent and regional rail will be able to access a downtown station via what is now known as the beltline, on this map it's the green dashed line called the "Decatur Belt" however, that is many years off and will involve the fight of all fights with NIMBYs. So for the shorter-term, a station at either of those two places presents a problem for the Crescent.

As you can see from the map, the Crescent comes in from the Northeast, and heads West missing "Atlanta" entirely and instead skirting the north side of Midtown. If the Crescent were to keep its current route, a downtown station would at minimum require a wye move around the gulch. This might work since CSX has greatly reduced the importance of this line in recent years. However, I believe Amtrak has previously strongly indicated a desire to avoid backing moves. A station at the airport, would require an extremely long backing move the entire length of Atlanta, so that's already a non-starter. The easy way to avoid this however, would be to reroute the Crescent off the NS west/south of Atlanta. The red line off the bottom left of the map is called the A&WP and it heads to La Grange, GA and Montgomery, AL. From there the train could fairly easily proceed to Mobile and New Orleans.

There's also the issue of the proposed routes out of Atlanta to Nashville and Savannah. The line to Nashville has already been said to use the W&A, the red line going off the top left of this map. The line to Savannah can use either green line going through the bottom of the map, but I believe is going to use the middle one. However, the line to Savannah wouldn't be able to use an airport station. Another site that's been talked about is Doraville, that would be located just a hair north east of the Chamblee dot on the Crescent's route. This site might work, however it is a long way away from the city itself and for Nashville service, a new connector track would have to be built at Howell Junction (just south of Howells Yard, just west of Atlantic Station) between CSX and NS, and it would preclude through Nashville-Savannah service like I believe has been proposed.

I actually like this idea. For one, the route length is a little shorter. For two, it gets the Crescent off of NS's busy line from the west into Atlanta. That's where most of the delays occurred that resulted in the new stupid schedule. For three, you provide a route between Atlanta (and possibly the airport) and the gulf coast. The section between Mobile and Gulfport is not as popular as Panama City from Atlanta, but still very popular. Sure, you'd lose a number of larger stations like Birmingham and Hattiesburg, but I think the tradeoff is worth it. So, what do y'all think?

Where can I find the map?

R&DB wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:21 pm Where can I find the map?

For some reason it didn't upload, I fixed it.

The Decatur Belt was abandoned from the National Rail Network in 2009 by the Surface Transportation Board and is no longer available.

I would opt for the gulttch and reroute through Montgomery.

GADOT punted on the Atlanta downtown station location and the specifics of the passenger route on their Charlotte-Atlanta-Hartsfield Greenfield HSR documents. They did specify that new track should be built from downtown to Hartsfield where the Charlotte route is planned to terminate. I would think that Crescent service would want to use this route between Charlotte and Atlanta should it ever get built. Given Georgia’s hesitance to build rail I would bet they will just use the possibility of the greenfield HSR to postpone any big station decisions.

While the route is uncertain, they have said they plan to build the Greenfield tracks to Athens, so I think that makes the most likely route into Atlanta along the CSX corridor.

So, we bring back The Crescent in place of The Southerner?

Now what will Chessie think of that? Oh, she's purring away at 500 Water, but wake her and out go the claws.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:47 pm So, we bring back The Crescent in place of The Southerner?

Now what will Chessie think of that? Oh, she's purring away at 500 Water, but wake her and out go the claws.

The cat's awake but distracted by other issues. That said, I doubt it's worth a hand-off or two. Handoffs take money.

The other thing is that you need good transit to the train station. Right now, there's not much to Atlanta Peachtree.

But I have an idea:

1. There seems to be an an abandoned lot at Perry Blvd NW and Marietta Road NW. Eniment Domain and give it to Amtrak to build a station with one provision... share it with MARTA.
2. Extend the Green Line from Bankhead to the new shared station... and further beyond to Riverside. Enhance bus transit to various industries

You get better transit service, a better Amtrak station, and better connections between the two.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:47 pm So, we bring back The Crescent in place of The Southerner?

Now what will Chessie think of that? Oh, she's purring away at 500 Water, but wake her and out go the claws.

With enough money maybe extend the New Orleans-Mobile train on to Montgomery & Atlanta. .

MattW wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:58 am

If you look at the map just due west of Atlanta airport between the 2 inside runways the A&WP sub has room for about 6 tracks with platforms if US-29 is moved to the west. What is really important is that the people mover from the airport to the common rental car terminal passes over this platform area. All that would be needed is several elevators from platforms to people mover. (about 50 feet ). As well next to the area is MARTA access and MARTA parking lot long and short term. I-85 also has access. NOTE there is real estate now for about 1 platform off main track for 2 station tracks to the east of main track.
This does not solve the downtown question but suspect that the HSR proposal has thought about it instead of Hapeville.

Just west of Stone Mountain on the Ga RR had a industrial spur that went north to close to the Blue line freeway. At same time the SAL also had a industrial spur that almost aligned to the GA RR spur. Were just separated by about 600 yards and the Stone Mountain freeway. Expensive rail bridge over freeway only problem. However both spurs have been shortened now.

I do not get to the gulch anymore. At one time I observed that by demolishing part of the car parking garage and using property of both Union station and Terminal station a station could be built with a loop track going around with about 10 station tracks inside with a line also extending to the south for SOU, C of GA, A&WP lines as well. That would be very similar to how Richmond Broad street station was once built. Some provision for track(s) could go east out the Ga RR as well. Now have no idea if that station design is even possible, That way no backing for passenger trains. What would also help both NS and CSX is for all 4 tracks from Howell to new station be common use . That would allow flyovers at Howell CP to be built much cheaper not cheaply.

The way SOU RR handled trains from the CLT to the BHM trains was to have trains to / From BHM to be pulled by a GP-7 or SW for backing to / from Howell CP to terminal station. Trains to BHM except KC FLA special were pulled from terminal past Howell CP then departed to BHM. SAL did the same except it attached its WASH cars to trains from BHM at Howells then backed full train to Terminal station. Inbound SAL trains from WASH cars were switched by SAL at Terminal station then switcher pulled it and excess cars to Howells. Yarded excess cars for servicing ( Silver Comet an example that then departed with its part to BHM.),

Sorry, Mr. West Point; I forgot you.

....and get "your road" (A&WP) back in the passenger train business.

The reason why the Southeast Railroad Commission passed on the station location in Atlanta is because the entities that are going to make that decision ultimately will be the City of Atlanta and MARTA. The railroad approaches into and out of Atlanta have lots of curvatures for a reason, geography. Wherever the new train station is built, I'm pretty sure Amtrak will figure out a way to get to it.

MattW wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:58 am I'm curious what everyone here thinks about rerouting the Crescent in order to better serve Atlanta? The issue right now is Atlanta's station is very inadequate, both for current and future service, but there are limited places to put a station in Atlanta. I've uploaded a map, originally from GDOT, that shows the track layout in Atlanta. It's still pretty accurate except all the belts except the "Inman Belt" are mostly unusable** the whole area around "Bellwood Yard" is gone, and the tail track behind Howells Yard is mostly out of service. Current plans are still looking at either a "gulch" station or an airport station. The "gulch" area is right there in the middle, to the left and below the "A" in Atlanta. This map isn't really to scale so that area is bigger than it looks. However, a private group has begun redeveloping that area. Whether or not they will leave space for an actual train station is unknown at this point. The airport station would likely be just to the left of "Hartsfield" down there near the bottom. However, if one or both were chosen as stations, that poses a problem for the Crescent. **Eventually, the Crescent and regional rail will be able to access a downtown station via what is now known as the beltline, on this map it's the green dashed line called the "Decatur Belt" however, that is many years off and will involve the fight of all fights with NIMBYs. So for the shorter-term, a station at either of those two places presents a problem for the Crescent.

As you can see from the map, the Crescent comes in from the Northeast, and heads West missing "Atlanta" entirely and instead skirting the north side of Midtown. If the Crescent were to keep its current route, a downtown station would at minimum require a wye move around the gulch. This might work since CSX has greatly reduced the importance of this line in recent years. However, I believe Amtrak has previously strongly indicated a desire to avoid backing moves. A station at the airport, would require an extremely long backing move the entire length of Atlanta, so that's already a non-starter. The easy way to avoid this however, would be to reroute the Crescent off the NS west/south of Atlanta. The red line off the bottom left of the map is called the A&WP and it heads to La Grange, GA and Montgomery, AL. From there the train could fairly easily proceed to Mobile and New Orleans.

There's also the issue of the proposed routes out of Atlanta to Nashville and Savannah. The line to Nashville has already been said to use the W&A, the red line going off the top left of this map. The line to Savannah can use either green line going through the bottom of the map, but I believe is going to use the middle one. However, the line to Savannah wouldn't be able to use an airport station. Another site that's been talked about is Doraville, that would be located just a hair north east of the Chamblee dot on the Crescent's route. This site might work, however it is a long way away from the city itself and for Nashville service, a new connector track would have to be built at Howell Junction (just south of Howells Yard, just west of Atlantic Station) between CSX and NS, and it would preclude through Nashville-Savannah service like I believe has been proposed.

I actually like this idea. For one, the route length is a little shorter. For two, it gets the Crescent off of NS's busy line from the west into Atlanta. That's where most of the delays occurred that resulted in the new stupid schedule. For three, you provide a route between Atlanta (and possibly the airport) and the gulf coast. The section between Mobile and Gulfport is not as popular as Panama City from Atlanta, but still very popular. Sure, you'd lose a number of larger stations like Birmingham and Hattiesburg, but I think the tradeoff is worth it. So, what do y'all think?

The reroute is a good idea, but there is a way to preserve service to Birmingham while simultaneously rerouting the Crescent as you suggested. That is to add a new section of the Crescent on the existing route as far as Meridian, MS, where the train would then turn west and run to Dallas and Fort Worth, via Jackson, MS and Shreveport, LA, similar to the old Crescent Star idea. The only difference would be: Instead of the train splitting in Meridian, it would split in Atlanta. Service between NOL and Meridian would be preserved through a new corridor train between those two cities, which would be timed to connect with trains on both ends if possible. Yes, there would still be a backup move in Atlanta required, but the train would have to be switched there regardless to allow for the splitting and combining of the two sections. It wouldn't take too much more effort to run the DFW section back up from the downtown Atlanta station to the existing Crescent route to continue to DFW.