SEPTA ever considering to switch to 60 hZ ?

Has there ever been any talk of SEPTA converting from 25 hZ to 60 hZ 12.5 kV ? I know that the power station at Wayne has had problem in the past. At least EMUs and ACS-64s would have no problem when switching onto Amtrak's 25 hZ system. If Amtrak ever should switch to 60 HZ then SEPTA would be in the cat's seat and be able to get rid of the 25 HZ capable transformers and stay with smaller 60 HZ transformers.

As I understand it Septa is still using the older 11 kV voltages. If that is so going to 12.5 KV would give more capacity without having to beef up power systems to CAT. However have not ever seen how much of the power system still has 25 HZ only capable equipment ?

Is 60Hz a good standard for the higher speed trains? I don't know much about trains in general. But if Septa is going to spend money on upgrading the power stations they should upgrade the catenary systems along with Amtrak for more reliable high speed trains.

As far as I can see the only territory in which SEPTA could use speeds > 80 mph is already electrified by Amtrak; stations on SEPTA lines are too close together for locals to reach even 80. SEPTA needs whatever equipment can accelerate and decelerate the fastest -- along with level boarding wherever possible -- since eliminating some stations to speed things up is mostly impossible because of the loss of parking area at those stations.

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:16 pm Is 60Hz a good standard for the higher speed trains? I don't know much about trains in general. But if Septa is going to spend money on upgrading the power stations they should upgrade the catenary systems along with Amtrak for more reliable high speed trains.

Amtrak uses 60 Hz, 25kV between New Haven and Boston, where the Acela trains hit their highest speeds. The old 25Hz systems were a compromise. It had the benefits of AC long distance transmission lines, which had much lower losses than DC transmission lines. But large universal motors didn't run well on 60Hz, but they worked well enough on 25Hz. The motor controls in old AC electric locomotives were very simple, they just used multi-tap transformers to supply different voltage 25Hz AC current to the universal motors. Higher voltage resulted in more power and speed, just like it would with a series-wound DC motor.

Modern electric traction uses variable frequency drives and AC induction or synchronous motors. These motors are only happy running in phase with the frequency (or nearly in-phase for induction motors). They're more efficient and lower maintenance than the old universal motors, but the variable frequency drives didn't exist back in the day.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 pm As far as I can see the only territory in which SEPTA could use speeds > 80 mph is already electrified by Amtrak; stations on SEPTA lines are too close together for locals to reach even 80. SEPTA needs whatever equipment can accelerate and decelerate the fastest -- along with level boarding wherever possible -- since eliminating some stations to speed things up is mostly impossible because of the loss of parking area at those stations.

I would argue that some of the West Trenton line should be brought up to 90 mph. You could even make the same argument for any restoration of the Bethlehem Branch, however realistic that would be.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 pm As far as I can see the only territory in which SEPTA could use speeds > 80 mph is already electrified by Amtrak; stations on SEPTA lines are too close together for locals to reach even 80. SEPTA needs whatever equipment can accelerate and decelerate the fastest -- along with level boarding wherever possible -- since eliminating some stations to speed things up is mostly impossible because of the loss of parking area at those stations.

It's just crazy that Septa RR stations are surrounded by massive parking lots. Shame they don't have apartments around them. Either Septa needs to get rid of those station shacks or upgrade them so it's usable.

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 2:23 pm

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 pm As far as I can see the only territory in which SEPTA could use speeds > 80 mph is already electrified by Amtrak; stations on SEPTA lines are too close together for locals to reach even 80. SEPTA needs whatever equipment can accelerate and decelerate the fastest -- along with level boarding wherever possible -- since eliminating some stations to speed things up is mostly impossible because of the loss of parking area at those stations.

It's just crazy that Septa RR stations are surrounded by massive parking lots. Shame they don't have apartments around them. Either Septa needs to get rid of those station shacks or upgrade them so it's usable.

There are tons of apartment buildings within walking distance of stations. Even far out stations like Exton now have hundreds of apartments within walking distance.

A lot of NIMBYs don't like parking garages in their neighborhood; as far as they're concerned they moved out there to get away from the crowded city and it's a damned shame that so many other people had the same idea ...
And in many cases putting up apartments would require zoning changes -- another challenge involving a lot of yelling and screaming at evening meetings.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:52 pm A lot of NIMBYs don't like parking garages in their neighborhood; as far as they're concerned they moved out there to get away from the crowded city and it's a damned shame that so many other people had the same idea ...
And in many cases putting up apartments would require zoning changes -- another challenge involving a lot of yelling and screaming at evening meetings.

How many places could you install garages anyway?

This is running far a field of a 60Hz discussion.

Please open a new stations vs zoning thread if you want.