Amtrak Revenue Trains using tracks 1-4 @ New York Penn Station

I had the pleasure of a trip by Turbotrain out of GCT many years ago but had no idea that the 3rd rail shoes could do over and under. Wonderful train to ride on back then.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:48 pm 1-The United Aircraft Turbotrains that ran NYG/NYP-BOS had third rail capability and shoes that could use
either over or under running third rail.

2-Tracks 1 to 4 at Penn Station used to be at least strictly for New Jersey local trains from what I remember.
Amtrak would only use them if it were deemed necessary. Those four stub-end tracks had no third rail.
(Seconding RJ in his previous post 7/25 on this page)

Before we derail the topic with the Turboliners, let me switch back with a question.

Refresh my memory, but aren't Track 1 to 4 are caternary powered, right?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:59 am

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:48 pm 1-The United Aircraft Turbotrains that ran NYG/NYP-BOS had third rail capability and shoes that could use
either over or under running third rail.

2-Tracks 1 to 4 at Penn Station used to be at least strictly for New Jersey local trains from what I remember.
Amtrak would only use them if it were deemed necessary. Those four stub-end tracks had no third rail.
(Seconding RJ in his previous post 7/25 on this page)

Before we derail the topic with the Turboliners, let me switch back with a question.

Refresh my memory, but aren't Track 1 to 4 are caternary powered, right?

Correct. It is why Keystones and NJT trains can use them.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:59 am

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:48 pm 1-The United Aircraft Turbotrains that ran NYG/NYP-BOS had third rail capability and shoes that could use
either over or under running third rail.

2-Tracks 1 to 4 at Penn Station used to be at least strictly for New Jersey local trains from what I remember.
Amtrak would only use them if it were deemed necessary. Those four stub-end tracks had no third rail.
(Seconding RJ in his previous post 7/25 on this page)

Before we derail the topic with the Turboliners, let me switch back with a question.

Refresh my memory, but aren't Track 1 to 4 are caternary powered, right?

Don't wanna go Turbo around a sharp curve and derail the thread... ok that's a bad pun. Let me get back on track.

To answer your question, yes. I mentioned I took a Keystone that terminated there and Keystones that access NYP are electric powered. I'm not 100% sure on the far west (LIRR) side but the far east side has catenary.

Also nice photo @andrewjw

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:49 pm The original intent was to have Tracks 1-4 lead into a third East River tube if it became necessary. Somewhere in Chris Baer's chronology on the PRRT&HS website is a memo from around 1937 reporting that a third tube will not be necessary after all; I think Track 1 has the beginning of a slight curve at the end allowing for that third tube.

Was the memo separate from the chronology? I didn't see anything about it in the chronology http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/Hagl ... _15_15.pdf for that year.

I think it would have to have been in the chronology, if not the memo itself then a condensed version, but it may not have been in 1937 -- I'll look some more.

When you said “recently” in July 2021, how recently did you mean? The Amtrak press release for Moynihan said that it would discontinue the occasional use of tracks 1-4 on 1/1/21. Perhaps your experience was in late-2020?

It would be very difficult to herd typical pax from Moynihan to tracks 1-4 (although I do it all the time, coming from 9th Ave to access NJT on tracks 1-4)… You gotta use another track at Moynihan, walk til you find stairs to NYP lower level.

If I get lucky and my NJT train is on tracks 5-12, the Amtrak “cattle herders” give me grief if they are holding pax for boarding on the opposite side of my platform, and I need to jump the line to use the escalator FYI: showing them on NJT app that the NJT train is boarding from the opposite track is what gets them to let me past their velvet rope and hundreds of waiting pax- they’re probably trying to hold the pax til NJT departs!

Lrgt wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:20 pm When you said “recently” in July 2021, how recently did you mean? The Amtrak press release for Moynihan said that it would discontinue the occasional use of tracks 1-4 on 1/1/21. Perhaps your experience was in late-2020?

It would be very difficult to herd typical pax from Moynihan to tracks 1-4 (although I do it all the time, coming from 9th Ave to access NJT on tracks 1-4)… You gotta use another track at Moynihan, walk til you find stairs to NYP lower level.

If I get lucky and my NJT train is on tracks 5-12, the Amtrak “cattle herders” give me grief if they are holding pax for boarding on the opposite side of my platform, and I need to jump the line to use the escalator FYI: showing them on NJT app that the NJT train is boarding from the opposite track is what gets them to let me past their velvet rope and hundreds of waiting pax- they’re probably trying to hold the pax til NJT departs!

Pardon my delayed response. Anyways, as evidenced by what you & I stated, to clarify, recently was in regards to July 2021 when I started the thread. As I mentioned on page 2, I didn't take Amtrak or go to NYP (NY as a whole too) between March 2020 & June 2021, so that rules out late 2020. I checked my email and narrowed it down to Amtrak Keystone 664 on July 10, 2021.

The train was lead by an ACS-64 and when I stepped out I noticed we were on Track 4. Red / burgundy floor with the marker lights reflecting off the wall near the bumper block. I didn't take photos or videos because:
1. I didn't want to look weird stepping to the head end of the train with the Amtrak crew standing next to the locomotive. I'm a big fan of personal space, and I respect theirs.
2. I was running late to an important event, thanks NJT for the delay .
3. It was HOT and crowded on that platform.

You & I appear to know our way around NYP and it's not difficult for us to go from Moynihan to NYP for Tracks 1-4. However we both know the average Amtrak passenger at Moynihan likely isn't familiar with the layout or willing to move from the stylish and modern Moynihan waiting area to the less ornate and hotter (there's like no AC there) area(s) leading to Tracks 1-4. Imagine an announcement at Moynihan telling passengers their Amtrak train is boarding on Tracks 1-4. Someone would have an episode and you would read about it somewhere.

Looks like dispatch "broke" the rule that day with routing my 664 onto Track 4.
I don't know what that physical train did after I left.
As mentioned, I had somewhere to be. Even if I didn't it was way too hot there.
A literal sauna, outside wasn't nearly as bad as that platform was.

Back in the days when Amtrak operated the Executive Sleeper service between NYP and WAS, Amtrak used tracks 1 thru 4 to position the car for occupancy before the southbound trip departed NYP and after the northbound arrived at NYP.

They was also used for PV parking when that was allowed in Penn Station. I recall seeing private car CANNONBALL parked next to the bumper post there in the mid/late 1970s.

Mr. Deasy - The Amtrak NYP-WAS Executive Sleeper was placed on Track 5 each night at Penn Station and was
available for occupancy after 9 PM when the service was offered in the 1980s. Passengers would "check in" at
Station Services and be escorted down to the car. The Car Attendant kept the single vestibule end door locked
and be summoned by ringing the door bell for entry. At entry the reservation and ticket was checked and held
for collection by the Train Crew of #67 to Washington overnight. The ES that came north on #66 was spotted on
Track 5 and allowed to be occupied until 8 AM.

Not sure if anyone mentioned that Tracks 1-2-3-4 at Penn Station have no third rail - meaning they could not be
used for Empire Service trains normally - these four tracks were regularly used by NJT and predecessors for NJ
local train service for more than 50 years at this point...

I remember when the extreme east ends of Tracks 1-2-3-4 were used at times for layover of private cars at NYP.
Was this ended by the tragic accident that occurred on September 8, 1979 during a private party on board the
Pennsylvania #120 then owned by Attorney George Pins...two guests climbed up on top of the car to pull some
sort of "prank" - coming into contact with the catenary - with one fatality and the other badly burned...

The incident was mentioned by Trains and Philadelphia Chapter NRHS "Cinders" in the 1979 PRR Chronoligical
History - Hagley Library of Wilmington, DE compiled by Christopher T. Baer
http://prrths.com/newprr_files/Hagley/P ... _intro.htm
Single years are available until 1979 than 1980 thru 1989.

In the aftermath of the tragic September 8, 1979 accident Attorney George Pins sold off all of his private cars that
were once stored at 30th Street Station Philadelphia in February 1980 - #120 was sold to a Florida businessman.
(as mentioned in 1980 Chronological History)...MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 6:58 pm Mr. Deasy - The Amtrak NYP-WAS Executive Sleeper was placed on Track 5 each night at Penn Station and was
available for occupancy after 9 PM when the service was offered in the 1980s. Passengers would "check in" at
Station Services and be escorted down to the car. The Car Attendant kept the single vestibule end door locked
and be summoned by ringing the door bell for entry. At entry the reservation and ticket was checked and held
for collection by the Train Crew of #67 to Washington overnight. The ES that came north on #66 was spotted on
Track 5 and allowed to be occupied until 8 AM.

The one and only time I took the Executive Sleeper from NYP to WAS the car was spotted on Track 1. I recall the attendant guiding me to the car and I noted the stub end bumper beyond. So there may well have been use of different tracks depending on circumstances.