**LONG ISLAND PRESERVATION NEWS**

I do remember the scrapping spate, un unfortunately for Twin Forks some
of their equipment got mixed in to the deal at great displeasure to the organization.

However Twin Forks got lucky with a second chance, the OBRM was kind enough to donate their 2900s to them.

Without a professional estimate from a restoration outfit. A ballpark comfortable figure of $100k per car would be a good start

I split out the 213 topic here:

For donations:

I split out the 213 posts to this, bookmarked topic: lirr-c420-preservation-dakota-southern- ... 73377.html

As for donations:

https://www.twinforksnrhs.org/

https://www.obrm.org/

https://rmli.org/

Hello Everyone,
Sorry we've been quiet lately, we have been doing alot of behind-the-scenes work. Well, some of that work has finally paid off! The two Missouri Pacific Cabooses and P&LE boxcar have finally been saved and moved into Riverhead yard! We are very excited to start the next wonderful chapter in their lives! The plan is to restore at least one of the cabooses to its as-rebuilt appearance(Though both will be painted in MP red with the buzzsaw logo) and the boxcar will be eventually returned to its as-rebuilt Jade green with P&LE lettering! We would like to thank everyone involved! If you would like to come and see these cars feel free to shoot us a message!

If you are not a member of the PRRT&HS, and you should be, please note there is a letter of appeal regarding the LIRR G5s, #39, and the potential for restoration of this grand locomotive. On the following page is a short piece by Don Fisher and a revision of the letter below, written by me earlier this year.
I've been the President of "New England Steam Corporation" over the past nine year, only stepping down from that post this past August. I know this restoration is possible and should be aggressively funded. I've been there, and nothing is impossible I urge each of you to help fund this magnificent piece of our Long Island Rail Road heritage, rather than stand by wondering why it hasn't happened.

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The face is pure Pennsy and the lines form that same geometric elegance of the conical boiler leading to the characteristic Belpaire firebox. There is something special in the "form follows function" design that ran through the PRR fleet, it's familial beauty, almost genetic in nature.

There remain three Pennsy design G5s locomotives in existence. One is likely to remain a static exhibit, indoors and under cover. Two are ready for reassembly. One is ready to be steamed and operated under the auspices of the most trusted steam railroad in the east.

Long Island Rail Road #39 holds a special place in my heart, as my father engineered its placement at the Carriage House Museum in 1956. Dad is long gone, but in my 71st year, I long to see her, hear her, experience her in operation, as do many other Pennsy fans. Collectively, we have the opportunity to make it happen, side stepping errors of the past, and assuring PRR/LIRR steam runs for decades after we are gone.
We can hope LIRR 35, PRR 1361, and 4483, will steam again one day, but we can have LIRR 39 in steam within our lifetimes if we wish to see it happen - now.
Nobody has asked me to write this letter and I only gain what we all gain together. In replacing our wishes with action, the Railroad Museum of Long Island benefits, the Strasburg Railroad benefits, and everyone who has wandered through the cold collection inside the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania benefits.
I am not asking Pennsylvania Railroad fans to choose between new construction or possible restorations. I am asking Pennsy historians to get behind a certainty. The Strasburg shop will do the complete rebuild (some parts of which are already completed). The Strasburg Railroad hass contracted with the Railroad Museum of Long Island to operate and maintain #39 in regular service for fifty years For me, five decades of the Strasburg operating PRR/LIRR steam is a huge win over those who dropped the fires in 1955!
Please join me in sending a donation with which you are comfortable to “Steam Up LIRR #39” RMLI POB 726 Greenport NY 11944-0726

With appreciation,
Richard Glueck
Winterport, Maine

RGlueck wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:29 pm I long to see her, hear her, experience her in operation, as do many other Pennsy fans. Collectively, we have the opportunity to make it happen, side stepping errors of the past, and assuring PRR/LIRR steam runs for decades after we are gone.

Especially me! As noted by my account name...

Interesting to see 39 represented with its erroneous 38 numberplate instead of 39. Did anyone start a gofundme for either 39 or 35? That site is usually an effective way to raise money for a project like this quickly. I remember when a gofundme helped save a steam locomotive in Texas from being scrapped a few years ago, so that goes to show how the railfan community can use websites like that to save steam engines like 39 and 35.

Gofundme is a good place for emergency money or to seed bucks, but we're talking serious change here, and it needs to come in from people determined to see a G5s returned to pristine, functional condition. People have money for what they want.

As much as I am a fan of steam. And I would be happy to see one of our own running again, I respectfully don’t see it happening, forgive me. This topic has gone on for now say close to 40 years? With much serious backing, by big names and investors, for 1361, the “need” for the G5 just isn’t there.
Can someone share the updated dollar amount that is needed for 39? With all this inflation and money being as tight at it already is locally, I don’t see this happening. In my opinion once 1361 steams, it may or my not spur the need for the G5, however the 3rd competitor with the T1 may take the G5s place and it’s funding is much further along?
Again,
What’s the total amount “due now” with no further payments due to complete 39?
How far is this project from the above number?
Is ALL the locomotives components intact or has anything other than the 39 keystone gone missing since the locomotive been disassembled.

Besides the boiler work, What works has been completed? What’s still needed, and what if any work is currently being done to advance this project?

I would prefer to look at what is solidly in place today for the funding.. I would strongly recommend looking at the steel work already completed, which is significant. The K4s has strong backers, as does the T1 project, but neither are related to the G5s project. This pair of hefty commuter locomotives can travel to a variety of locations and proved themselves capable during thirty years of heavy wear and service.

Instead of looking at 40 years of start - stop restoration initiatives, I would take the position that once the funding is completed, it's a done deal. If 1000 people donated $1,000, that's $1,000,000, and in terms of numbers, those donations are not unrealistic. Railfans could do this, but I would suggest Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York, companies and grantors to make this happen. I think a real case can be made for the effort. Before you wave your hand and mutter something about "another pie in the sky dreamer", consider that every good effort has a beginning.

Arthur C. Clarke, who wrote "2001 A Space Odyssey" and proposed communications satellites in one of his earliest papers, said: "Every Project has three phases. The first is 'It can't be done. The second is 'It can be done, but it will cost too much', the third is, 'See I always thought that was a great idea'".

Communication satellites orbit the world as a basis for television, telephone, and internet traffic today. I suggest we all become determined to see this project through to a successful conclusion and operation.

Hi,
I have no doubt that 39 can be restored. I know what Can be done, I say that all the time. The “I can’t, we can’t, and we won’t” attitude and culture has to stop. This is actually alive and well in the company today let alone preservation.
The culture was thought, over the last 30 or so years and unfortunately now needs to be unlearned by a whole New generation, one who don’t know “what I can, We can, and we will” was like. They’ll be surprised to see how good it feels to achieve greatness.

That said. In my opinion there’s 2 majors issues with the 39 project.
1) management. The project is poorly managed. And some of the terms of the contract with Strasberg appear to be extremely foolish. No one with contract experience would have sold them selves so short unless they had the money already available to begin the project which wasn’t the case for 39.

Also the project could have been completed in much more affordable stages. And not a one lump sum.

2) volunteers. This project needs manpower and volunteers. And Long Island this is hard to come
By. Free time is limited to many, and the competition for volunteers is great across the island. Traffic, convenience, location, tools, and restoration equipment. It’s all taken into effect. All
Of this ate away of the amount of work able to be done at home with local volunteers. Both individually and as a company volunteering their manpower for a weekend.

There is a lot of lessons to be learned from the 39 project. I More than anyone want to see it done. 39 suffered enough.
Fortunately the locomotive could run at Strasberg, but the arrangement Tommy knowledge stopped just short of handing ownership of the locomotive to them (SRC).

Currently. Even if 100 people donated the $1000 to this project, 39 is not running on LIRR. Millions of dollars went into PTC which was designed so quickly to meet FRA Deadlines that as the system currently sits the locomotive wouldn’t be permitted to carry passenger trains, another several million would be needed to be shelled out to the consultants to make the mandatory modifications.
The money simply isn’t there. Prove me wrong.
39 would have fared better in my opinion if she was restored in stages ie
Running gear and air brakes completed,
And protected. Then assembled to a point RMLI could have towed it around for publicity and fundraising. Events. The locomotive would
Have essentially been. Restored except for the boiler/firebox and cylinders. Pistons and push rods should have been restored and stored indoors off the locomotive.
Now you have a fundraiser vehicle that can be used to garnish the funds needed.
This all Goes back to project management from the beginning.

But what do I know. I’m not involved with the project on a functional level and just shared my opinion solely based on my observations over the last 10-15 years. Forgive me, but you can see why I see it this way.
Note: this is in no means to be taken as an insult to any one or any organization. This is solely the opinion of one individual bases solely said individuals private right to share an opinion

And I take your opinion for what it is, and just as honorable as my own. But I also think, "If not us, who?"
I would possibly manage it somewhat differently, but I'm not there to do so. What I can do is get behind the people who are there and help get this completed sooner, rather than later.

The LIRR might have allowed steam operations at one time, and we can debate why that was rescinded, however that's not happening today so let's go forward to where the G5s can operate successfully and do what she's meant to do.

Hi,
Yes, opinions are like…… everyone has one.
That said, all that can be done now is to salvage what’s left of this agreement and see if it can be re-railed before the terms expire.
Providing the errors can be righted, and modifications made within reason I don’t see why 39 can’t run at the SRC.

That said. I’am curious to know what happens I’d the terms are not fulfilled?
When the agreement deadline passes, does the SRC Ship 39 home in pieces? Do they use the available funds raised for finishing the firebox/boiler to a point just shy of starting the clock for the 1472?
Does 39 come home at all or does SRC take ownership?
What happens? Anyone?

First of all, stop shitting on those younger than you. The time's coming when older folks will have to pass the torch; there are dozens of cases of young people taking the lead in preservation attempts.

Second off - 39 doesn't need a "need". It being restored to operation and run by Strausberg is a net good. It wasn't doing much languishing, disassembled, in Riverhead - and this gives us a chance to watch a LIRR steamer a reasonable distance away in our lifetimes. 1361 and 5551 are unlikely, to my understanding, to visit the northeastern seaboard - from my understanding, post-steam-program NS, Amtrak's NEC operations, and CSX are all hostile to steamers, are they not?

39 operating at Strasburg, on the duties it was built to do, as a representative of the LIRR and PRR steam that simply wouldn't otherwise be possible seems like a boon to me. There's also the fact that towing it around for fundraising is easier said than done - and would likely not be done.

I simply see no conclusive evidence that had this deal never come through it'd be better. Likely, 39 would still be lying in riverhead in pieces.

Edit: RMLI already has a much-easier-to-transport fundraising engine; that 30in 0-4-0 that they can hook up to a trailer. And it can actually run in events.

I personally support the project. I do want to see 39 one way or another.
That said. The past experiences has not shown much promises.
The 5550, and 1361 are much father ahead in terms of their ability to raise money, whereas 39 is likely closer to operation than the aforementioned.
Can some one share here what’s been completed to date? Has any work commenced in recent times? I was at SRC in 2017 and 39 was out side in protected, with the top of the firebox opened. The new top crown sheet still not attached (as of then)
There for though I have reservation, I wholly support seeing 39 run. Why not have 3 PRR engine one day. A shame we lost the h10s but that’s another discussion.

To my knowledge the class 1s are not as hostile to steam operations as you may want to believe.
They have rules and federal regulations they need to comply with, this includes steam.
NS has ferried both 611 and 765 recently, neither currently has PTC operable at the moment, To
My knowledge they’re working with the FRA and the railroads on a Steam adaptable PTC.
But this would likely only work with ITMES and not ACSES.

As for operating steam on the NEC, some of the reasons 611 was denied (they never officially asked that I know of) was because of traffic density and liability with foaming buffs and high speeds trains.

Unfortunately, during the 20teens PTC development meetings, mainline steam
Was left out, and no carve out or exceptions were made for said operations. Now trying to revise those regulations is not an easy process. You’re dealing with layers of bureaucracy.
In the end, even if the FRA amends their language in the PTC regulations to permit non equipped or a “PTC-Lite” system, the ultimate decision will be on the host Railroad weather or not they will allow/accept the non/limited equipped steam locomotives to operate.
God willing this will be straightened out by the big steam operators, FRA, and the rail industry as a whole.

Yeah, but that's a lot of starry eyes and crossed fingers compared to 39 bringing pennsy steam back to her home state.

Can someone share here a link to a detailed break down of the entire 39 fund? Every dollar raised and spent since the SRC arrangement was enacted?
This information should be public but I haven’t seen it and I cannot access RMLI website.
I’d like to see where our donations have gone exactly.