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  • Amtrak Revenue Trains using tracks 1-4 @ New York Penn Station

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1576586  by Railjunkie
 
andrewjw wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:28 pm And finally as noted Empire Service trains lack cab cars and must be reversed between each run so they never used tracks 1-4, even though the Empire Tunnel track (4A) has access to the relevant ladder tracks. They can only access tracks 1-7 and almost exclusively use tracks 5 and 6 for this reason.

Empire service trains use tracks five thru nine. As mentioned 1 thru 4 just are not feasible due to lack of 3rd rail and the reverse move to be spun. Five and six seem to be the preferred tracks but I have came in and left off any of the five. AMT 49/48 would be the only trains depending on length where track five or nine would not be used. Although I have had a few times when Ive been asked.
Why arent you moving, your blocking the ladder?? Ahh cause Im stopped at the signal. How many cars do you have?? Eight plus two engines, we called and said anywhere BUT five...
Last edited by Railjunkie on Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1576618  by rohr turbo
 
andrewjw wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:28 pm And finally as noted Empire Service trains lack cab cars and must be reversed between each run so they never used tracks 1-4, even though the Empire Tunnel track (4A) has access to the relevant ladder tracks. They can only access tracks 1-7 and almost exclusively use tracks 5 and 6 for this reason.
I'm wondering if my beloved turbos (being push-pull) ever used these stub end tracks?
 #1576627  by Railjunkie
 
rohr turbo wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:22 pm
andrewjw wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:28 pm And finally as noted Empire Service trains lack cab cars and must be reversed between each run so they never used tracks 1-4, even though the Empire Tunnel track (4A) has access to the relevant ladder tracks. They can only access tracks 1-7 and almost exclusively use tracks 5 and 6 for this reason.
I'm wondering if my beloved turbos (being push-pull) ever used these stub end tracks?
If I remember correctly the layover for the tin lizards was track six. Don't ever recall coming in on One thru four again no third rail plus back then PSCC was really a stickler about letting you in on diesel. Those things at idle would have smoked out the entire first level in a matter of minutes
 #1576633  by NortheastTrainMan
 
Railjunkie wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:49 pm
rohr turbo wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:22 pm
andrewjw wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:28 pm And finally as noted Empire Service trains lack cab cars and must be reversed between each run so they never used tracks 1-4, even though the Empire Tunnel track (4A) has access to the relevant ladder tracks. They can only access tracks 1-7 and almost exclusively use tracks 5 and 6 for this reason.
I'm wondering if my beloved turbos (being push-pull) ever used these stub end tracks?
If I remember correctly the layover for the tin lizards was track six. Don't ever recall coming in on One thru four again no third rail plus back then PSCC was really a stickler about letting you in on diesel. Those things at idle would have smoked out the entire first level in a matter of minutes
"Tin Lizards" 😂 nice one. Were you speaking about the lack of 3rd rail on tracks 1-4 or the Turboliners lacking 3rd rail shoes? I thought Turboliners had 3rd rail shoes at one point at least. I think the RTG models did, not sure about the UAC ones, at least for NYP (over running 3rd rail). Wikipedia (grain of salt) says the UACs had 3rd rail capability for GCT only (under running 3rd rail) and not NYP. It seems prior to Amtrak they served GCT, then when Amtrak formed they began serving NYP. I'm not too familiar with them, so if I'm wrong correct me.
 #1576636  by NortheastTrainMan
 
andrewjw wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:28 pm All services besides Keystones are serviced and turned in Sunnyside so they would need to occupy a platform track anyhow - so even before Moynihan I had never heard of any non-Keystone boarding from Tracks 1-4. But pre-Moynihan Keystones frequently arrived at, deboarded, boarded, and then departed from tracks 1-4, since they do not need to be turned or serviced (no cafe) between trips.

While any Amtrak train not continuing can terminate at tracks 1-4, they cannot board there from Moynihan (it has access only to tracks 5-16 directly and then to 17-21 via the WEC), and Amtrak has been emphasizing Moynihan to all departing passengers. So I strongly suspect the practice of boarding Keystones on these tracks has come to an end. They could, like any other terminating northbound Amtrak, deboard there, but I struggle to imagine an operational advantage if they would just need to be backed up to what is left of yard A and pull back into another platform track to board.

And finally as noted Empire Service trains lack cab cars and must be reversed between each run so they never used tracks 1-4, even though the Empire Tunnel track (4A) has access to the relevant ladder tracks. They can only access tracks 1-7 and almost exclusively use tracks 5 and 6 for this reason.
You raised a very valid point. I didn't take Amtrak or visit NYP from March 2020 to June 2021. When I returned I noticed it was empty where NJT's and Amtrak's ticketing offices were. It wouldn't make much sense for Amtrak to board from tracks 1-4 as they're pushing for their riders to board from Moynihan Hall. Imagine waiting for a Keystone at Moynihan using tracks 1-4 to find out it left for Harrisburg. Part of me is still iffy, so if I'm taking a Keystone from NYP, I'll wait in NYP just to be on the safe side. I'm probably one of very few who thinks that way though.
 #1576639  by J.D. Lang
 
Amtrak states emphatically on its website and timetables that ALL Amtrak trains now use Moynihan only. You cannot board an Amtrak train from NYP. All other Amtrak services such as ticketing and baggage is now located in Moynihan only.
 #1576647  by NortheastTrainMan
 
J.D. Lang wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:40 pm Amtrak states emphatically on its website and timetables that ALL Amtrak trains now use Moynihan only. You cannot board an Amtrak train from NYP. All other Amtrak services such as ticketing and baggage is now located in Moynihan only.
I literally boarded an Amtrak train from NYP the other day. I think Amtrak is making a big push to get their riders to board from Moynihan, but boarding from NYP isn't prohibited. At least not yet.
 #1576688  by Railjunkie
 
NortheastTrainMan wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:23 pm
Railjunkie wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:49 pm
rohr turbo wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:22 pm
andrewjw wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:28 pm And finally as noted Empire Service trains lack cab cars and must be reversed between each run so they never used tracks 1-4, even though the Empire Tunnel track (4A) has access to the relevant ladder tracks. They can only access tracks 1-7 and almost exclusively use tracks 5 and 6 for this reason.
I'm wondering if my beloved turbos (being push-pull) ever used these stub end tracks?
If I remember correctly the layover for the tin lizards was track six. Don't ever recall coming in on One thru four again no third rail plus back then PSCC was really a stickler about letting you in on diesel. Those things at idle would have smoked out the entire first level in a matter of minutes
"Tin Lizards" 😂 nice one. Were you speaking about the lack of 3rd rail on tracks 1-4 or the Turboliners lacking 3rd rail shoes? I thought Turboliners had 3rd rail shoes at one point at least. I think the RTG models did, not sure about the UAC ones, at least for NYP (over running 3rd rail). Wikipedia (grain of salt) says the UACs had 3rd rail capability for GCT only (under running 3rd rail) and not NYP. It seems prior to Amtrak they served GCT, then when Amtrak formed they began serving NYP. I'm not too familiar with them, so if I'm wrong correct me.
No third rail on tracks 1-4 Penn station the Turbos were equipped with third rail shoes.
 #1576689  by Railjunkie
 
NortheastTrainMan wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:23 pm
Railjunkie wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:49 pm
rohr turbo wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:22 pm
andrewjw wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:28 pm And finally as noted Empire Service trains lack cab cars and must be reversed between each run so they never used tracks 1-4, even though the Empire Tunnel track (4A) has access to the relevant ladder tracks. They can only access tracks 1-7 and almost exclusively use tracks 5 and 6 for this reason.
I'm wondering if my beloved turbos (being push-pull) ever used these stub end tracks?

If I remember correctly the layover for the tin lizards was track six. Don't ever recall coming in on One thru four again no third rail plus back then PSCC was really a stickler about letting you in on diesel. Those things at idle would have smoked out the entire first level in a matter of minutes
"Tin Lizards" 😂 nice one. Were you speaking about the lack of 3rd rail on tracks 1-4 or the Turboliners lacking 3rd rail shoes? I thought Turboliners had 3rd rail shoes at one point at least. I think the RTG models did, not sure about the UAC ones, at least for NYP (over running 3rd rail). Wikipedia (grain of salt) says the UACs had 3rd rail capability for GCT only (under running 3rd rail) and not NYP. It seems prior to Amtrak they served GCT, then when Amtrak formed they began serving NYP. I'm not too familiar with them, so if I'm wrong correct me.
Turbos were equipped with third rail shoes tracks 1-4 NYP do not have third rail.
 #1576738  by ExCon90
 
NortheastTrainMan wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:14 pm
J.D. Lang wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:40 pm Amtrak states emphatically on its website and timetables that ALL Amtrak trains now use Moynihan only. You cannot board an Amtrak train from NYP. All other Amtrak services such as ticketing and baggage is now located in Moynihan only.
I literally boarded an Amtrak train from NYP the other day. I think Amtrak is making a big push to get their riders to board from Moynihan, but boarding from NYP isn't prohibited. At least not yet.
Regular riders have traditionally known that if a train originated in Boston its arrival track would appear on the arrival board on the lower level long before the departure track was announced upstairs and there was no impediment to going down from the lower level to the platform while the thundering herd was still watching the departure board upstairs. Is there a departure board located somewhere in Moynihan where those in the know could wait for a Keystone departure track (any track -- not just 1-4) to be displayed and then do an end run via the lower level while people are lining up at the "proper" stairway upstairs? Never underestimate a New Yorker.
 #1576745  by andrewjw
 
J.D. Lang wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:40 pm Amtrak states emphatically on its website and timetables that ALL Amtrak trains now use Moynihan only. You cannot board an Amtrak train from NYP. All other Amtrak services such as ticketing and baggage is now located in Moynihan only.
This is patently incorrect, the old main Amtrak waiting area on the upper level above the Exit Concourse is signed for "Amtrak and New Jersey Transit" and Amtrak trains are shown on the departures boards. It is just ticketing and baggage services that are exclusively available in the new concourse.
NortheastTrainMan wrote:
"Tin Lizards" 😂 nice one. Were you speaking about the lack of 3rd rail on tracks 1-4 or the Turboliners lacking 3rd rail shoes? I thought Turboliners had 3rd rail shoes at one point at least. I think the RTG models did, not sure about the UAC ones, at least for NYP (over running 3rd rail). Wikipedia (grain of salt) says the UACs had 3rd rail capability for GCT only (under running 3rd rail) and not NYP. It seems prior to Amtrak they served GCT, then when Amtrak formed they began serving NYP. I'm not too familiar with them, so if I'm wrong correct me.
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?4,1782579

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/78/38/61 ... e320ab.jpg



http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=300207

Here is some other evidence / discussion of Turbos in NYP. I agree, nothing clarifies whether they ran with shoes for Penn.
 #1576830  by STrRedWolf
 
J.D. Lang wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:40 pm Amtrak states emphatically on its website and timetables that ALL Amtrak trains now use Moynihan only. You cannot board an Amtrak train from NYP. All other Amtrak services such as ticketing and baggage is now located in Moynihan only.
Moynihan isn't open 24/7, so some overnight trains are in Madison.
 #1576860  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone:

1-The United Aircraft Turbotrains that ran NYG/NYP-BOS had third rail capability and shoes that could use
either over or under running third rail.

2-Tracks 1 to 4 at Penn Station used to be at least strictly for New Jersey local trains from what I remember.
Amtrak would only use them if it were deemed necessary. Those four stub-end tracks had no third rail.
(Seconding RJ in his previous post 7/25 on this page)

MACTRAXX