Future of Septa Regional Rail Fleet

JeffK wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:22 am

PHLSpecial wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:03 pm Probably won't see the Silverliners IV leave until 2030 or 2040? Was that the original timeline?

My understanding is that they’re already at or near the end of their service life. The IVs were delivered from 1973 to 1976 which puts them at the half-century mark by the middle of this decade.

You never know with SEPTA and this state’s Scroogery towards transit funding, but trying to keep the IVs going for 60-65 years would seem to be very unlikely. .

You never know, the Blues lasted almost 60 years.

59 years (1931-1990), the Lackawanna electrics hit 54, MP54s between 40s and 60s.

Keep in mind the PATCO cars (1968) will make past 65-75 and NYCT's R32s have made 55 years.

But being from the same era, I see the Silverliner IVs outrunning the Amfleets.

Any news on the CRRC cars? The last thing I saw back in March was May-June timeframe I believe for delivery of first car.

Don't be too impatient; rather have one sideline than two like the MBTA.

The US needs standard designs for each type of equipment. The ML cars are ill-suited to anything except NJT into Penn due to severe capacity restrictions. Single-level cars work better in the Northeast in any application where they can provide the necessary capacity. A standard EMU design could work on SEPTA, NJT, CDOT, MBTA, and possibly others. The ML EMUs are likely to be rather heavy and cumbersome due to the space needed for propulsion equipment. NJT should really just stick with ML push-pull sets and put two ALPs on them for routes that are capacity constrained.

Also, SEPTA needs to put bathrooms on any new equipment. What is this, a third world country?

ElectricTraction wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:27 pm The US needs standard designs for each type of equipment. The ML cars are ill-suited to anything except NJT into Penn due to severe capacity restrictions. Single-level cars work better in the Northeast in any application where they can provide the necessary capacity. A standard EMU design could work on SEPTA, NJT, CDOT, MBTA, and possibly others. The ML EMUs are likely to be rather heavy and cumbersome due to the space needed for propulsion equipment. NJT should really just stick with ML push-pull sets and put two ALPs on them for routes that are capacity constrained.

Also, SEPTA needs to put bathrooms on any new equipment. What is this, a third world country?

Agreed, I don't know the status of the EMU bi-levels but I kinda hope its cancelled. Like you said single level is the best way forward for the northeast corridor minus NJT. The Denver RTD could also piggyback of this should they need more cars in the future. I'm not sure would design a EMU for commuter rail.

In Chicago, the METRA Electric Division is on at least their second generation of gallery type EMU's which are a kind of bi-level car but different configuration than NJT uses. And the Chicago, South shore & South Bend RR (NICTD) also now runs a fleet of gallery type EMU's. They are very readily accepted in the Chicago area.

If commuter numbers remain a good percentage below 2019, using the Comets all day and the CRRC coaches during rush hour might be buy some time to figure out what the future looks like and limit usage of the Silverliner IVs.

If the Comets do well while the CRRc cars don’t in such a situation, the answer might be more Sprinters and a commuter version of the Amfleet replacement? Not ideal, but more off the shelf than other ideas as there really isn’t a market for SIlverliner V style EMUs outside of SEPTA. Maybe if Amtrak buys some single level EMUs SEPTA could get a commuter version.

The Silverliner IVs are mentioned. While they still run fine, it’s not too soon at all to be looking into their replacements.
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ets--63876

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:36 pm The Silverliner IVs are mentioned. While they still run fine, it’s not too soon at all to be looking into their replacements.
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ets--63876

They have a tack-on to the NJT MultiMU order, right? As terrible an idea as those are, I’m fairly certain those will be our Silverliner VIs.

mcgrath618 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:22 am They have a tack-on to the NJT MultiMU order, right? As terrible an idea as those are, I’m fairly certain those will be our Silverliner VIs.

Agreed that having a multilevel EMU is a terrible idea.
Is Bombardier still building them since they don't technically exist anymore? Is NJT taking deliveries next year?

Wouldn’t the bilevels be an even worse fit for the proposals to run Regional Rail more like a metro service with 15 minute headways? I am skeptical of the idea, but not as skeptical as I was before riding the last couple weeks. The locals I have been taking out of Malvern have been more predictable and often early than the expresses ever were.

Personally, I think Septa might be better off just ordering single level MUs. I'm not really sure if the ridership is as high on the regional rail system as other agencies like NJT, even in better times. Plus, with many of the Septa platforms still low level, having Multilevel MUs could slow the dwell times a little. Hopefully Septa can get MUs that can accelerate just as good as a Silverliner IV and Silverliner V.

I wonder if SEPTA is paying attention to Amtrak's order of MU trainsets from Siemens. Maybe something they'd want to either piggyback off or (more likely) make modifications to the design to fit their needs (like I believe the sets Amtrak are ordering will be diesel powered and will be unbreakable sets, SEPTA would be more apt to want their MUs electric powered and sets no longer than 2 cars).

ekt8750 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:59 pm I wonder if SEPTA is paying attention to Amtrak's order of MU trainsets from Siemens. Maybe something they'd want to either piggyback off or (more likely) make modifications to the design to fit their needs (like I believe the sets Amtrak are ordering will be diesel powered and will be unbreakable sets, SEPTA would be more apt to want their MUs electric powered and sets no longer than 2 cars).

They aren’t MUs but locomotives with cars. The dual mode locomotives might with considering along with a commuter version of the passenger car and control car.