Acela Disposition Discussion

Not arguing for either side here, but I think a lot of people are forgetting that Amtrak is currently making improvements to the line from Philadelphia to Paoli, bringing the line up to 90 mph in some sections (and if I recall correctly, higher in others).

They also announced in their “plan” released a week or two ago that they intend to bring the line up to 125 in some sections from its existing maximum speed of 110. This might actually make running the A1s make some sense. However, this is an Amtrak “plan” we’re talking about, and even disregarding the recent legislative rumbles about seizing this stretch of track from Amtrak, Amtrak plans rarely come to fruition as originally conceived (see: service to the Florida Panhandle).

I think another important part of this equation to consider is Bombardier/Alstom. Do they own these trainsets and lease them to Amtrak, not unlike the Hippos?

mcgrath618 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:45 am I think another important part of this equation to consider is Bombardier/Alstom. Do they own these trainsets and lease them to Amtrak, not unlike the Hippos?

It would not necessarily be Amtrak leasing them for the Keystone service or San Joaquin Valley service, it would be Pennsylvania or California leasing them and allowing Amtrak their use. Just like California, Illinois, Missouri, Michigan, Wisconsin, Washington, and North Carolina are allowing Amtrak to use the new Siemens Venture cars, and Oregon allowing Amtrak to use their new Talgo sets.

There are a bunch of HHP8s sitting idle in an Amtrak yard off the NEC which Amtrak is waiting for the existing lease to expire - and must maintain them in perfect working order. What Bombardier does with them after the lease is over is Bombardier business, they could lease some of them to MARC, SEPTA. NJT, MTA North, or MBTA - if any of them wished to run them. Or Bombardier could scrap them.

Let's suppose that Amtrak owned them and wanted to scrap them (HHP8 or Acela) all, sells them to a scrapper in a public auction, and the scrapper then decides to lease them out instead of scrapping them. What could Amtrak do about that?

Just because the rolling stock in question has no value to Amtrak does not mean the same rolling stock has no value for others. How many P-40s and FH-40s has Amtrak retired that are still in active service elsewhere? Their value will ultimately be determined by the market place.

Another argument was made recently that there are no maintenance depots or facilities in California or Pennsylvania to maintain Acela train sets. I suggest that they could be built for them if you decided to lease or purchase them. CHSR will be needing to build such a facility in the Valley anyways, and SEPTA has property near the tracks where they could build one.

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:58 pm The A1's will be museum pieces, training cars for SWAT teams, and perhaps a few cars saved for Joe Biden's funeral train. That's about it.

Yeah, most of these will be scrapped. Biden's funeral train would be Lincon's train, the same one used by Bush 43.

mcgrath618 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:45 am Not arguing for either side here, but I think a lot of people are forgetting that Amtrak is currently making improvements to the line from Philadelphia to Paoli, bringing the line up to 90 mph in some sections (and if I recall correctly, higher in others).

They also announced in their “plan” released a week or two ago that they intend to bring the line up to 125 in some sections from its existing maximum speed of 110. This might actually make running the A1s make some sense.

You could use the existing equipment mix to reach those speeds.

STrRedWolf wrote:

eolesen wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:58 pm The A1's will be museum pieces, training cars for SWAT teams, and perhaps a few cars saved for Joe Biden's funeral train. That's about it.

Yeah, most of these will be scrapped. Biden's funeral train would be Lincon's train, the same one used by Bush 43.

Uh no. Bush 43 is alive and well. Bush 41 was carried to rest by the UP in a specially outfitted mail storage car "Council Bluffs", not in some replica of the Lincoln car.

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eolesen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:07 pm Uh no. Bush 43 is alive and well. Bush 41 was carried to rest by the UP in a specially outfitted mail storage car "Council Bluffs", not in some replica of the Lincoln car.

I stand corrected over "Grandpa" Bush vs "Dubba" Bush.

...and over Lincoln's train car as well. Ugh. That would of been something had it survived.

If you want something "new" on the line to Harrisburg, if only Amtrak (or Pennsylvania) could order some HSR trainsets from a company already making such trainsets that are compatible with Amtrak equipment going forward.

If only...

In the meanwhile, I look forward to a close shave with some recycled steel.

I can't imagine PA's GOP legislature paying for it.

photobug56 wrote:I can't imagine PA's GOP legislature paying for it.

You mean the same GOP legislature that already funds the Keystone and Pennsylvanian services today including improvements to bring the Keystone up to 110mph standards with a goal of 125mph?

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I hear you - maybe they took the funds from the state college system which is on the verge of being decimated (IMHO).

Here's a different approach to this discussion ... Instead of considering Amtrak routes we should instead consider routes or systems that have an existing relationship with Bombardier.

In that case Canada becomes the obvious candidate and specifically VIA and lines between Toronto and Montreal. VIA has a long history of second hand purchases from Amtrak and Bombardier would probably go out of their way to support an overhaul that went as smoothly as possible.

It's also notable that to date Canada has never had high speed rail lines but some of their services and corridors may be approaching the traffic densities where that type of service becomes sensible.

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photobug56 wrote:I hear you - maybe they took the funds from the state college system which is on the verge of being decimated (IMHO).

Trading one cheap shot for another?...

PA requires a balanced budget (sort of) and right now is running a slight surplus despite COVID thanks to that GOP legislature. Maybe this is why they've kept transit and state sponsored routes fully funded. Other states seem to struggle with that.



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gokeefe wrote: In that case Canada becomes the obvious candidate and specifically VIA and lines between Toronto and Montreal.

Aside from the lack of catenary, sounds great. Begs the question why hasn't Canada pursued electrification before...

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eolesen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 12:35 pm Aside from the lack of catenary, sounds great. Begs the question why hasn't Canada pursued electrification before...

Because like the USA, Canada produces oil in significant numbers to be basically self supporting for oil. Therefore the diesel fuel is cheap. Unlike Japan and Europe, that rely upon Mideast oil that's relatively expensive, hence the love affair with electrification. Even so, much of Europe's railways are still not electrified. How much?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/451 ... in-europe/
EU-28 average, 54.3% is electrified, therefore 46.7% is not.

Admittingly, the Europe's railways electrification far exceeds America's and Canada's.

Yeah, you probably are overreacting.

Scrapping can't come to soon.

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