Proposal for MARC to Run to Hagerstown + Potential Brunswick Line all day service

Recropping the picture from the State map, how's the "Wilmington and Western" from Martinsburg to Hagerstown?
Would "beyond Martinsburg" rail service be "enough better" than somebody driving to Frederick? (and how's the parking at Monocacy?)

Going by a station site development document, pre covid 75 percent of 800 spaces filled up at monocacy.

Seems worth planning where the next 800 riders will come from, and how badly they need to come off I-70 beyond Monocacy, as opposed to the more traditional “add 800 more spaces at Monocacy” and in a Zoom work world, adding more trains every hour (or 1.5 or 2) throughout the day

Some aspects of work, particularly around a physical desk and a predictable AM “report to work “ time have permanently morphed into on-demand needs

If there’s also going to be a fight with CSX over schedule, I think making Monocacy frequent, all-day, and clockfacing is the better investment

But sure, the state should also be buying or preserving the route to Hagerstown...but maybe that’s the median of I 70?

For any sort of two way MARC service to happening the Brunswick Line, CSX would seriously have to think about adding a third track in as many spots as possible. It won’t be easy to do everywhere, including through Downtown Silver Spring. In Downtown Silver Spring, the buildings closely surround the right of way with little wiggle room to add the second track.

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:25 am For any sort of two way MARC service to happening the Brunswick Line, CSX would seriously have to think about adding a third track in as many spots as possible. It won’t be easy to do everywhere, including through Downtown Silver Spring. In Downtown Silver Spring, the buildings closely surround the right of way with little wiggle room to add the second track.

Lets expand the scope a bit here. CSX Metropolitan Subdivision is basically busy... but how much of that freight is really going to around Union Station?

No, if it's going towards Union, it's really hitting QN, making a left at the Amtrak Coach Yard, going up by RIVERDALE in Hyattsville, , taking that branch down to Cheverly, and hitting the Anacostia Railroad Bridge to continue south.

In other words, you need a track that avoids DC on the way down to Florida. Build that track, and you free up capacity to run MARC all day on that line.

BTW, access to the Brunswick Line from Union Station? One track. Access to the Camden Line from Union Station? One track.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 7:27 am

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:25 am For any sort of two way MARC service to happening the Brunswick Line, CSX would seriously have to think about adding a third track in as many spots as possible. It won’t be easy to do everywhere, including through Downtown Silver Spring. In Downtown Silver Spring, the buildings closely surround the right of way with little wiggle room to add the second track.

Lets expand the scope a bit here. CSX Metropolitan Subdivision is basically busy... but how much of that freight is really going to around Union Station?

No, if it's going towards Union, it's really hitting QN, making a left at the Amtrak Coach Yard, going up by RIVERDALE in Hyattsville, , taking that branch down to Cheverly, and hitting the Anacostia Railroad Bridge to continue south.

In other words, you need a track that avoids DC on the way down to Florida. Build that track, and you free up capacity to run MARC all day on that line.

BTW, access to the Brunswick Line from Union Station? One track. Access to the Camden Line from Union Station? One track.

The one track for each CSX route issue needs to be resolved. New crossovers before the splits to union station.
It looks like there could be enough room, but it would remove an access road along each single track section.
It would give a lot of redundancy operationally.

Sadly, getting rights on the Winchester and western, and buying the former southern Valley branch (which is now looking at becoming a trail in the middle) and C&W from NS, and C&GV to Staunton, and then routing the traffic via Buckingham Branch would be a faster route, once the tracks were upgraded to 60mph running.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:59 am The one track for each CSX route issue needs to be resolved. New crossovers before the splits to union station.
It looks like there could be enough room, but it would remove an access road along each single track section.
It would give a lot of redundancy operationally.

Sadly, getting rights on the Winchester and western, and buying the former southern Valley branch (which is now looking at becoming a trail in the middle) and C&W from NS, and C&GV to Staunton, and then routing the traffic via Buckingham Branch would be a faster route, once the tracks were upgraded to 60mph running.

That's the idea. The only other thing that could work is put a wye in at St. Dennis and upgrade the Old Main Subdivsion, so that you're sending more traffic over then back down to Jessup and Savage.

I don’t see these alternatives increasing access by Marylanders to DC by creating alternatives to I270

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 7:27 am

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:25 am For any sort of two way MARC service to happening the Brunswick Line, CSX would seriously have to think about adding a third track in as many spots as possible. It won’t be easy to do everywhere, including through Downtown Silver Spring. In Downtown Silver Spring, the buildings closely surround the right of way with little wiggle room to add the second track.

Lets expand the scope a bit here. CSX Metropolitan Subdivision is basically busy... but how much of that freight is really going to around Union Station?

No, if it's going towards Union, it's really hitting QN, making a left at the Amtrak Coach Yard, going up by RIVERDALE in Hyattsville, , taking that branch down to Cheverly, and hitting the Anacostia Railroad Bridge to continue south.

In other words, you need a track that avoids DC on the way down to Florida. Build that track, and you free up capacity to run MARC all day on that line.

BTW, access to the Brunswick Line from Union Station? One track. Access to the Camden Line from Union Station? One track.

I wonder just how much CSXT uses the "old main line" between St Denis and Point of Rocks? Much of this line was double track years ago. Restoring some of this double track could get Philadelphia - Baltimore - Cumberland traffic off of the Metropolitan sub through QN. There is unfortunately no room for a wye track at Thomas Viaduct going east to west without building at huge bridge over the Patapsco river.

As for connections at Washington Terminal "C" interlocking and CSXT the leg between "C" and "F Interlocking" (Ivy City) was originally two tracks. As far as I know the second track bed is still there. The connection between "C" and "QN" has been single track since WAMTA built their Brentwood yard back in the early 70's. Not sure if there's enough room to squeeze a second track in between the current track and the west leg of the coach yard wye.

Arlington wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 6:11 pm I don’t see these alternatives increasing access by Marylanders to DC by creating alternatives to I270

The idea here is to open slots to run MARC trains instead of freight by rerouting the freight. Wye at St. Dennis (via bridge) and a DC bypass are the best current options.

RRspatch wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:58 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 7:27 am

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:25 am For any sort of two way MARC service to happening the Brunswick Line, CSX would seriously have to think about adding a third track in as many spots as possible. It won’t be easy to do everywhere, including through Downtown Silver Spring. In Downtown Silver Spring, the buildings closely surround the right of way with little wiggle room to add the second track.

Lets expand the scope a bit here. CSX Metropolitan Subdivision is basically busy... but how much of that freight is really going to around Union Station?

No, if it's going towards Union, it's really hitting QN, making a left at the Amtrak Coach Yard, going up by RIVERDALE in Hyattsville, , taking that branch down to Cheverly, and hitting the Anacostia Railroad Bridge to continue south.

In other words, you need a track that avoids DC on the way down to Florida. Build that track, and you free up capacity to run MARC all day on that line.

BTW, access to the Brunswick Line from Union Station? One track. Access to the Camden Line from Union Station? One track.

I wonder just how much CSXT uses the "old main line" between St Denis and Point of Rocks? Much of this line was double track years ago. Restoring some of this double track could get Philadelphia - Baltimore - Cumberland traffic off of the Metropolitan sub through QN. There is unfortunately no room for a wye track at Thomas Viaduct going east to west without building at huge bridge over the Patapsco river.

As for connections at Washington Terminal "C" interlocking and CSXT the leg between "C" and "F Interlocking" (Ivy City) was originally two tracks. As far as I know the second track bed is still there. The connection between "C" and "QN" has been single track since WAMTA built their Brentwood yard back in the early 70's. Not sure if there's enough room to squeeze a second track in between the current track and the west leg of the coach yard wye.

I seem to recall Impossible Challenge having a picture of a Y at St dennis, no idea of it would be too sharp for modern railcars. I also recall that CSX still owns some of the property for what would be a Thomas Viaduct Bypass, if they ever actually build it, then said Y would be a moot point.
It looks like a second track could go back in next to brentwood, but WMATA employees would need a different way to drive in to work. and yes, i see the irony of mass transit employees driving into work.
The other problem is, this still puts additional trains on camden line, which is also in need of increased service.

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Fri May 14, 2021 10:12 am I seem to recall Impossible Challenge having a picture of a Y at St dennis, no idea of it would be too sharp for modern railcars. I also recall that CSX still owns some of the property for what would be a Thomas Viaduct Bypass, if they ever actually build it, then said Y would be a moot point.
It looks like a second track could go back in next to brentwood, but WMATA employees would need a different way to drive in to work. and yes, i see the irony of mass transit employees driving into work.
The other problem is, this still puts additional trains on camden line, which is also in need of increased service.

Looking at the Capitol Sub, it looks like you can more easily put in a third track than you can on the Brunswick line. There's some places where some flyovers could be added as well. It'll be a long expensive project to turn the Camden Line into a capable 3-track line... but it would be even more expensive on the Brunswick line as-is.

I think the money can be spent on a south-bound DC bypass rail, followed by the wye. Just the bypass will help unload both lines.

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 11:25 am For any sort of two way MARC service to happening the Brunswick Line, CSX would seriously have to think about adding a third track in as many spots as possible. It won’t be easy to do everywhere, including through Downtown Silver Spring. In Downtown Silver Spring, the buildings closely surround the right of way with little wiggle room to add the second track.

Buff: With the way that the former B&O/CSX line between Rhode Island Avenue and Silver Spring was
constructed back in the 1970s to add Metro's Red Line to the routing there is no practical place to add any more
additional tracks to this line.

I first rode and visited Silver Spring, MD back in late February 1978 not long after the Metro Red Line had been
extended to this interim terminal - and with the development that has occurred there since 1978-1979 it never
fails to amaze me how extending Metro was the incentive for the area's tremendous growth...MACTRAXX

njtmnrrbuff wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 11:17 am Most transit agencies should definately be thinking in terms of all day/daily service. MARC is no exception and it shouldn't just happen on the Penn Line. The Brunswick Line could use more service and even a few more stops. I'm not saying stop on every corner but having a stop around Randolph Rd is a good idea as this would enable people who live around Randolph Rd and Montrose Ave in Rockville and parts of Potomac not to have to drive to Downtown Rockville or Kensington. There isn't much parking at Kensington Station as well as Garrett Park. Having a MARC Station at Shady Grove might be a good idea as well-lots of people live around there and there are many offices and retail venues.
Now for MARC to run all day service on the Brunswick Line, it would have to be up to CSX too. In the end, CSX owns the Metropolitan Sub and I believe that it's a very busy stretch of track. We have to wonder if it would be possible for CSX to build a third track on the Met Sub. I believe that in many spots, that may be tough. It might work. There are spots where it would be a matter of removing trees. Yes, the Met Sub does pass along many people's backyards.

Buff: CSX will probably never allow any large expansion of MARC Brunswick Line service.

One of the prime reasons was the head-on collision that occurred February 16, 1996 just west of Silver Spring
between an eastbound MARC reverse commuter train and Amtrak #29 - "Capitol Limited" WAS-CHI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Mary ... _collision
There were 11 fatalities - including all three train crew members of the MARC train.
In the aftermath of this wreck MARC cut back service to Brunswick eliminating any off-peak and reverse
commuter service on the route. With both legs of the U-shaped Metro Red Line serving Montgomery County, MD
there was frequent service alternatives provided to the Rockville/Shady Grove and Glenmont areas already.

On June 19, 1987 there was a CSX freight train wreck on the eastbound Metropolitan Subdivision near Takoma
that not only wripped up some of the paralleling Metro Red Line track - the derailing cars narrowly missed some
buildings that were close to the tracks along the line including houses.

There will have to be some kind of agreement or compromise for any added service between MARC and CSX
that both parties can live with...MACTRAXX