Economics and Thoughts on an Single Level Surge / Reserve Fleet

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri May 07, 2021 10:13 pm Oh, I don't know. The extra board, just like every other Class 1 does?

Come on Mr. Olesen, you've had a career in transportation.

A railroad's Extra Board all too often is "dry". When it is, traffic, class notwithstanding, stops.

I've "been there done that" as an Amtrak passenger "Engineer and Conductor not yet rested". Well, there you go 90ML "out of the Gate".

Also over in the land of Friendly Skies, I can recall one trip going to HPN on a puddle jumper, site shows on time as I'm riding out on the Blue Line. I alight and check again: CANX no available crew. That ended up with a reroute to LGA; collecting auto rental there.

Another humorous "of sorts"; going to MIA flight delayed with the Gate Agent saying "we need one more Flight Attendant; oh but look everyone; here she comes spinning out of the turn....". The young girl obviously was in shape.

I'm sorry, but I must dismiss "from the Extra Board..."

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 6:43 am A railroad's Extra Board all too often is "dry". When it is, traffic, class notwithstanding, stops.
...
I'm sorry, but I must dismiss "from the Extra Board..."

I have to agree with Mr. Norman here. Unlike bus and sometimes subway/light rail transit, there's not much slack with a Class 1's Extra Board. You need an engineer qualified to run the train on the line you're on. You need enough conductors to staff the train, some of them doubling as qualified engineers. And you have to make sure they got time on the clock to spend.

For example, lets take the 2011 Virginia earthquake, which was a 5.9 that suspended all service around DC and Baltimore. 3:25pm Amtrak and CSX reopen to flash flood speeds, but delays were heavy and trans were canceled. This was sent from MARC Operations to passengers on their (back then overloaded) email alert system:

Due to the severe delays this evening on all three lines because of the earthquake, there will likely be reduced service offered on Wednesday, August 24. The Federal Railroad Administration requires that train engineers and conductors receive a minimum rest period between work shifts. Amtrak and CSX maintain a list of "standby" employees to cover such situations, but there are not enough replacement crews to cover all trains. We hope to make a decision about service for Wednesday, August 24 by midnight tonight. Please check the MTA website and also an email will be sent.

Overnight, a follow-up was sent:

CSX Transportation and Amtrak both have confirmed with MARC that they will have enough conductors and engineers to operate full service on Wednesday, August 24. Both railroads have cautioned us that, in order for employees to get their federally-mandated rest time between shifts, some trains may depart origin points 10-20 minutes late. Notification of late trains tomorrow will be made as usual: on the MTA website (www.tinyurl.com/marcsvc1), through this email system, and station announcements. Thank you in advance for your understanding and patronage of MARC.

The next day, due to complying with regulations, MARC's Brunswick Line was roughly between 20-60 minutes late. And that's with pulling from the Extra Board!

I'm running an archive of all the emails coming out of the MARC system, and... I can't count how many times the Brunswick line had a cancellation or delay due to no crew. It happens.

Trains like the Denver ski train must be run from the extra board. However during national vacations, I imagine senior staff "pull rank",and the extra board are fully utilized.

In a nutshell:
1) staff is likely to be short at exactly the moment you’d want to put the extra fleet in motion
2) many of the special leisure trips end up operable from weekend slack (and don’t need weekday slack)

If you can't staff an extra section, you probably can't find crew to staff extra cars, or handle the switching moves, inspections, etc. for a surge fleet...

I don't think its nearly as difficult as you think. It all comes down to resource planning and working with the unions.

Airlines get it done because they annul flights on the actual holiday. When more people are able to get the actual holiday off without burning PTO, those crews now have time on the run up days and follow up days.

Better yet.. if the unions can't work with management to staff the extras, outsource extra sections entirely to the Class 1's or a for-profit operator.

Sell or lease them some P42s at $1 each for HEP and the Horizons so they can run/staff the equipment and not have it be a scope violation. Limited demand based passenger service just might be profitable for a Class 1 if there wasn't an expectation that it has to operate more than two weeks a year...



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I believe the manpower staffing concerns issues can be split apart to NEC / Zone 1 & 2, and everywhere else.

At least on the corridor, your boards are not as paper thin & with additional equipment coming, net +8 Acela train sets, you will need to fill out the C&E ranks anyway and that may trigger an additional crew required on C&E per board. Even the carrier “sweetening the pot” for working those high demand days such as Thanksgiving Sunday can help get people to come out when otherwise rested.

Eolesen’s comment was originally based on the 1-a-day areas, but it can be especially challenging on the corridor as well.

A surge fleet is needed for unanticipated problems. Maybe even a need that cannot be though of. Example: suppose this shutdown of the Colonial pipeline goes longer than a week. Then there will be a shortage of gasoline and probably diesel as well on the east coast from Alabama to NY.. If that does occur every operating piece of Amtrak rolling stock will be needed. It never occurred to this poster that a Colonial problem could occur.
Since the FTA has already expanded HOS for tanker drivers maybe FRA would do same for operating crew. Or maybe use some freight crew with Amtrak persons.

west point wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 3:04 pm A surge fleet is needed for unanticipated problems. Maybe even a need that cannot be though of. Example: suppose this shutdown of the Colonial pipeline goes longer than a week. Then there will be a shortage of gasoline and probably diesel as well on the east coast from Alabama to NY.. If that does occur every operating piece of Amtrak rolling stock will be needed. It never occurred to this poster that a Colonial problem could occur.
Since the FTA has already expanded HOS for tanker drivers maybe FRA would do same for operating crew. Or maybe use some freight crew with Amtrak persons.

Oh yeah, that is going to be problematic. I wonder if they're able to switch to pumping fuel into tanker cars...

Ether way, worse case scenario, a good chunk of MARC, NJ Transit, and Amtrak traffic grinds to a halt.

nomis wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 1:07 pm Eolesen’s comment was originally based on the 1-a-day areas, but it can be especially challenging on the corridor as well.

No, my comments on extra sections were actually mainly about corridors since the cars being surplused are going to be Amfleets and Horizons, which are largely chair cars aside from the few lounges. Either way, they're only suitable for day trains.

LD loads were so pitiful prior to COVID that I see no reason to be thinking about extra sections... Want to tack on an extra sleeper? Go for it if you can find one...