Amtrak Gateway Tunnels

I get a real sinking feeling whenever I hear about the desire to fix the tunnels first. IMO go ahead with the fixing of the old tunnel bores but do not delay one hour longer before starting the new tunnel bores. What if a mistake is made putting one of the old tunnels out of service for a year or more ?

Then of course the possibility although not big is what happens if another "Sandy" comes along. Another flooding of the old bores could be disastrous. Does anyone know if some kind of flood gate is now in place ?

https://www.constructionequipmentguide. ... sing/51572

The Gateway Development Commission announced in March that Amtrak has awarded a contract and work has begun on behalf of the Gateway program to relocate utilities out of the future path of the third and last section of the Hudson Yards Concrete Casing in Manhattan, N.Y., a part of the Hudson Tunnel Project.

The commission is a partnership made up of the states of New York and New Jersey and Amtrak.

The $25 million early work project is the latest step in preparing for the full construction of the new Hudson River Tunnel and rehabilitation of the existing tunnel. The advance construction project will create jobs and provide an economic boost as the region continues to work through the COVID-19 crisis.
...
Planned in collaboration with the Long Island Railroad (LIRR) and its related companies, the utility relocation project involving LIRR's Emergency Services Building is a critical path activity that allows future construction of the concrete casing itself. The advancement of utility relocation was a key recommendation received from the private sector during the Gateway Partners' Request for Information process to reduce project risks and unknowns during full construction. The development of the future construction of the final section of the concrete casing is continuing.
...

Somehow I missed this. Mostly just a press release but:

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/bi ... y-project/

Pull quote:

The Biden Administration has announced that a “critical milestone” in the Gateway Tunnel Project will be achieved in May—completion of the Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) and the Record of Decision (ROD).

Read the last few lines .... Translation: "As soon as we got into office we told them to get this wrapped up as quickly as possible."

Pretty clear indication there what's going to happen once the infrastructure legislation goes through.

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So as I was looking through NJ Transit's current schedule to respond to an Amtrak thread, I found something odd.

7am hour (rush hour) to NY Penn... a few trains were coming in two minutes apart.

Wait a minute... isn't the Hudson River tunnels max 12 trains an hour per tube? That's not right. That's more like 30. That the... can someone explain this?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:56 am So as I was looking through NJ Transit's current schedule to respond to an Amtrak thread, I found something odd.

7am hour (rush hour) to NY Penn... a few trains were coming in two minutes apart.

Wait a minute... isn't the Hudson River tunnels max 12 trains an hour per tube? That's not right. That's more like 30. That the... can someone explain this?

I don't have a reference handy, however I want to say that for at least part of the rush both tunnels are operating in the same direction.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:56 am So as I was looking through NJ Transit's current schedule to respond to an Amtrak thread, I found something odd.

7am hour (rush hour) to NY Penn... a few trains were coming in two minutes apart.

Wait a minute... isn't the Hudson River tunnels max 12 trains an hour per tube? That's not right. That's more like 30. That the... can someone explain this?

The maximum is 24 trains one way per hour per tube, for a total of 48 trains, 24 in each direction, with both tubes operating. If there is only one tube in operation, the total of 48 bidirectional trains is reduced to 12 per hour.

Ken W2KB wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:05 am The maximum is 24 trains one way per hour per tube, for a total of 48 trains, 24 in each direction, with both tubes operating. If there is only one tube in operation, the total of 48 bidirectional trains is reduced to 12 per hour.

Okay, that makes more sense. I was led to believe it was 24 per hour combined.

CraigDK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:01 am

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:56 am So as I was looking through NJ Transit's current schedule to respond to an Amtrak thread, I found something odd.

7am hour (rush hour) to NY Penn... a few trains were coming in two minutes apart.

Wait a minute... isn't the Hudson River tunnels max 12 trains an hour per tube? That's not right. That's more like 30. That the... can someone explain this?

I don't have a reference handy, however I want to say that for at least part of the rush both tunnels are operating in the same direction.

Just to be clear this is definitely not the case.

lensovet wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:17 pm

CraigDK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:01 am

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:56 am So as I was looking through NJ Transit's current schedule to respond to an Amtrak thread, I found something odd.

7am hour (rush hour) to NY Penn... a few trains were coming in two minutes apart.

Wait a minute... isn't the Hudson River tunnels max 12 trains an hour per tube? That's not right. That's more like 30. That the... can someone explain this?

I don't have a reference handy, however I want to say that for at least part of the rush both tunnels are operating in the same direction.

Just to be clear this is definitely not the case.

Good to know. I probably misread something a few years ago and got that stuck in my head.

The Long Island does that on the two main tracks between Queens Village and Hicksville, resulting in a gap of over an hour with no eastbound trains in the morning and no westbounds in the evening, which may be the situation you read about. (The problem is now being corrected by the addition of a third track together with grade-crossing elimination, a project begun at least as early as 1990 and scheduled to be completed later this year. They say all things come to him who waits ... )

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:13 pm The Long Island does that on the two main tracks between Queens Village and Hicksville, resulting in a gap of over an hour with no eastbound trains in the morning and no westbounds in the evening, which may be the situation you read about. (The problem is now being corrected by the addition of a third track together with grade-crossing elimination, a project begun at least as early as 1990 and scheduled to be completed later this year. They say all things come to him who waits ... )

Hopefully they'll keep at least one track open for the reverse commute, but I have a feeling that will not happen in the future. (I also think they need to three-track the Babylon branch, but that's getting off-topic)

EIS approval for Gateway Tunnel expected May 28, per GDC Co-Chair

The “Record of Decision” approval of the Environmental Impact Statement and planned route for the two new rail tunnels between New Jersey and New York is expected from the U.S. Department of Transportation on May 28, said Balpreet Grewal-Virk, Gateway Development Commission Co-Chairwoman.

“We’re moving in the right direction. I’m referring to the USDOT approving the EIS so we complete the environmental process,” she said. “The ROD will potentially allow us to move forward on multiple things, including property acquisition and other early project work.”

...

Gateway officials said the delay ultimately increased the cost of the project due to inflation, adding $300 million to the price to build the tunnels. That cost stands at $9.8 billion for new tunnel construction, said Tony Coscia, Amtrak board chairman and GDC commissioner. Rehabilitating the 110-year old existing tunnels adds $1.8 billion, for a grand total of $11.6 billion.

Enjoy: https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny- ... story.html

Doubling passenger rail capacity under the Hudson is essential, as we’ve said for years and there’s a faster, cheaper and better to get there than Amtrak’s $30 billion Gateway boondoggle. But we must now confess that our criticism was wrong.

The truth, revealed in Amtrak’s Fiscal Year 2022 General and Legislative Annual Report to Congress, is that Gateway’s cost is now $33.7 billion: A new tunnel is $9.8 billion. Add $1.8 billion to fix the old tunnel, and $1.9 billion for the Portal North Bridge. Building Penn South, to allow more trains into Manhattan, is $10.9 billion. Add on top another $9.3 billion for a slew of Jersey projects necessary for the whole rotten jigsaw puzzle to fit together.

Gateway was concocted by Amtrak, under the terrible Joe Boardman, who was fired as head of the railroad in 2016. Former Gateway chief John Porcari broke the mega project into pieces, but none of it works until the whole $33.7 billion thing is built, breaking the bank.
...

The NY Daily News is throwing all kinds of other projects in as a way of ensuring that, when they're all done adding, it looks like a number that can sound "too much"