Announcing Amtrak Sub-Forums!

I'm sorry, I don't get how doing this enabled that. You posted it in the Main Amtrak forum, great. And then cross-posted it to others INCLUDING Amtrak-NEC... so what additional value did we all gain here? None that I can see. You could still have cross-posted it in the past (because that's done) all you've done is now cross-post it to a sub-forum, which in essence is a duplicate of the main forum you posted it in. I'm not seeing how that is in any way an advantage, and can only see it as a disadvantage as I'll see it in two places that basically cover the same topic (Amtrak) I regularly visit that. And more over, it'll probably confuse me as it'll show as unread in the main forum AND the NEC Subforum. If I read it in the main forum and assume it was the only unread article in the subform, suddenly the NEC Subforum shows NO unread topics, when a minute ago it did. (I'm presuming but that appears to be what happens). So now I'm confused. That doesn't strike me as an improvement.

That said, another issue I have. At the top of the page in forums and the like is a complete breadcrumb trail so I can jump from a sub-forum to the Amtrak forum directly.
At the bottom I can only return to the subforum. This creates MORE work for me. Since if I go into say Amtrak-NEC, read the ONE unread topic there and have to scroll to the bottom of a long page to read it all, I can't just hit "Amtrak' to jump directly into the Amtrak forum. I either need to hit the link to the sub-forum, where there's no more topics to read, and then hit the link for the Amtrak Forum, or I have to scroll to the top, and then hit the Amtrak Forum.

It's extra work for no real advantage as far as I can tell.

Sorry Jeff, I know you mean well, but I think this particular change is a bust.

danib62, that's not necessarily the case, certainly not based upon 2 pages of response. I do appreciate the fact that you don't appreciate the change, but there's no empirical evidence of a majority disapproval, particularly given the fact that those who approve or don't care are less likely to say so.

To be honest, it's a couple of mouse clicks; is that really an inconvenience? Click Amtrak, Scroll. Then click a sub-forum, scroll. Click "back", repeat. It takes a few seconds. Or use the unread posts function; I use it daily to monitor what everyone is talking about.

I'll check the options again in the meanwhile.

Sorry Jeff, but my take is completely different and honestly, if that's your take, I'd be worried for the site.
Let me explain.
First, in the previous two pages, I see very few votes in support of the changes. Now I'm welcome to being proven wrong, but I suspect I won't be.

Secondly, while it's true that folks who are less than happy are more likely to complain, relying on apathy from the content to make your point is generally not a good business strategy. I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone vocally in support of the changes, but a number of folks in some cases vocally, against the changes. So my guess is, among the apathetic ones (i.e. the ones who haven't said anything) the ratio is similar. At best people tolerate it, at worst people actively dislike it.

As for "a few extra clicks" Umm... yes. It's an inconvenience. And more so, dismissing it is basically telling your users, "we don't care if you're inconvenienced." Especially so when I have yet to see an upside. If there were an upside with the dimensionless number of say 5 and the inconvenience was measured in the downside of the same dimensionless number of 3, it would still be a net gain of 2. But when for me (and it seems others) the changes are already a downside of say -3 and extra scrolling and clicking is -3, we're now looking at -6. That's bad. Again, all relatively but the point is the same, measuring the inconvenience against the convenience.

Now, not directly relevant, but I'll toss this in: https://articles.uie.com/three_hund_million_button/

Greg, danib, I'm not saying I don't care by any stretch of the imagination. I've listed the benefits, and solutions for those who don't like the change. I'm very cognizant of business concepts, and value propositions. Now, maybe I misread the value added by sub-forums, and maybe I didn't. I thought it was an elegant solution for those looking for specific topics. I still do.

I did go back through the two pages, and found more than one but less than ten lol disapprovals, with a couple thumbs up. I don't think that's empirical, but I appreciate your point.

That said, it was a trial run, and I've reverted back to status quo.

Sorry if I sounded like a broken record, but thank you for your listening to your users!

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:32 pm That said, it was a trial run, and I've reverted back to status quo.

Thanks!

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:59 am I just started a thread on through running instead of Penn South. I first posted it in Amtrak (main). I then "cross-threaded" it into Amtrak Corridor, Amtrak NEC, LIRR, MNRR, NJT, and then into it's final position in the NYC Wide forum.

Is that something a regular user can do or only those with super powers?

"Move thread, leave permanent redirect?" A great tool if you want to alert people in the six other forums of the thread in the seventh forum, but can one reply in the NEC forum and have that reply update seven threads or do the first six forums just see redirects? Does the redirect move toward the top of the forum as the thread is posted to in the final forum or do they stay in the timeline at the point where you made the initial move?

Threads that simultaneously update in multiple forums would be a better feature (if that is what you are referring to). I have not looked for your well traveled thread. But can mere mortals post such a thread?

The best long term solution is to have each thread in its most appropriate forum and get used to checking multiple forums. Especially for a seven forum thread.


It is good to see it go back to one Amtrak forum. While large, it does keep Amtrak discussion together without fragmentation.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:32 pm Greg, danib, I'm not saying I don't care by any stretch of the imagination. I've listed the benefits, and solutions for those who don't like the change. I'm very cognizant of business concepts, and value propositions. Now, maybe I misread the value added by sub-forums, and maybe I didn't. I thought it was an elegant solution for those looking for specific topics. I still do.

I did go back through the two pages, and found more than one but less than ten lol disapprovals, with a couple thumbs up. I don't think that's empirical, but I appreciate your point.

That said, it was a trial run, and I've reverted back to status quo.

Let me say two things:
Actually threee.
If I was at all a bit harsh, I apologize. Just trying to be vocal.
That said:
1) Thank you for changing it back.
2) Thank you for trying. Seriously. I'd rather see you try 10 ideas and 9 of them be failures and 1 succeed than try nothing and never improve.

I can definitely see where it might have some benefits, and implemented differently, I for one might have been a huge convert.

So please, keep trying stuff. If it works, I'll be the first to applaud. But as you know, if not, I'll be the first to give feedback. As long as you're willing to listen, I'll keep hanging around.

One more thing to add: the changes to the current color scheme and the like, as you know didn't start off well and you listened to feedback (including what I gave) and I greatly appreciate that. It made for a more modern looking, usable site.

So, please keep up the efforts.

justalurker66 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:38 pm Is that something a regular user can do or only those with super powers?

"Move thread, leave permanent redirect?" A great tool if you want to alert people in the six other forums of the thread in the seventh forum, but can one reply in the NEC forum and have that reply update seven threads or do the first six forums just see redirects? Does the redirect move toward the top of the forum as the thread is posted to in the final forum or do they stay in the timeline at the point where you made the initial move?

Threads that simultaneously update in multiple forums would be a better feature (if that is what you are referring to). I have not looked for your well traveled thread. But can mere mortals post such a thread?

The shadow topic feature lets the super-users have the ability to place the thread in multiple forums. A quick reference would be the Siemens forum. Some of the topics show a different icon, such as Amtrak ALC-42 Procurement (Long-Distance LD Charger Variant) or Siemens Brightline Equipment/Train Sets. The thread exists in Amtrak and Brightline respectively, but anyone that goes into Siemens would be able to find them easily. The CAF forum is filling in even more with multiple agencies.

nomis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:53 pmThe shadow topic feature lets the super-users have the ability to place the thread in multiple forums.

Thanks for the explanation and example. Shadow topic is the advanced feature where the "link" continues to update and stay in order as if the thread was in each forum. On most sites I see links that are not dynamic (a link to another forum, but it scrolls off the bottom of the screen).

danib62 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:34 pm Sorry if I sounded like a broken record, but thank you for your listening to your users!

No worries lol. It's not like anyone was rushing to my defense!

Greg, absolutely no worries. I value feedback. I wasn't sure how it would work, or be received. Admins and mods have discussed this in the past, but I hadn't had time to experiment with it. I think basically it's the limitation of the phpBB set-up, and how it didn't conform with Amtrak. The display options just weren't there.

The NYC forum is kind of reverse of that; I was splitting Amtrak, but having an over-arching forum for multiple EXISTING forums.

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:27 pm Let me say two things:
Actually three.
If I was at all a bit harsh, I apologize. Just trying to be vocal.
That said:
1) Thank you for changing it back.
2) Thank you for trying. Seriously. I'd rather see you try 10 ideas and 9 of them be failures and 1 succeed than try nothing and never improve.

I can definitely see where it might have some benefits, and implemented differently, I for one might have been a huge convert.

So please, keep trying stuff. If it works, I'll be the first to applaud. But as you know, if not, I'll be the first to give feedback. As long as you're willing to listen, I'll keep hanging around.

One more thing to add: the changes to the current color scheme and the like, as you know didn't start off well and you listened to feedback (including what I gave) and I greatly appreciate that. It made for a more modern looking, usable site.

So, please keep up the efforts.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:32 pm Greg, danib, I'm not saying I don't care by any stretch of the imagination. I've listed the benefits, and solutions for those who don't like the change. I'm very cognizant of business concepts, and value propositions. Now, maybe I misread the value added by sub-forums, and maybe I didn't. I thought it was an elegant solution for those looking for specific topics. I still do.

I did go back through the two pages, and found more than one but less than ten lol disapprovals, with a couple thumbs up. I don't think that's empirical, but I appreciate your point.

That said, it was a trial run, and I've reverted back to status quo.

Maybe edit the first post to say the change was reverted?