• Maintaining power during Penn Station switching

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by wborys
 
I see videos where 6-7 separate boarding rail lines combine using a complex set of switches- and they end up with just two tracks, east bound through the two tunnels , to and from the LIRR commuter line.
If power is drawn from trackside power rails, how is constant power maintained when a trainset goes through the complex set of switches, combining the 7 lines into two?
  by 452 Card
 
"Kicker" rails placed strategically throughout the interlocking to keep the MU trains from gapping. When the engineer draws power, even if the head car is in a gap the other cars on the train will propel forward if they are on the third rail. No regenerative braking from the AC traction system occurs since the speed of the train is under 15 mph.
  by Kelly&Kelly
 
When Penn Station was built, the Pennsy and LIRR also used DD1 electric locomotives to bring steam trains through the tunnels and into the station. Unlike most of today's electric engines, the DD1s used DC third rail for propulsion. There was no AC overhead wire in the station back then.

Since there would only be one or two third rail shoes on the entire consist, there were small pantographs atop those engines that contacted an overhead third rail on the ladders through the station's complex interlockings.

When the DD1s were used in freight service, they were joined with a "reacher" flat car that had four third rail shoes trainlined to the engine to permit reaching into sidings at slow speed. Third rail gaps were also designed to be much shorter in those days.

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In later years, when the M1s arrived, the railroad often operated them in four car units. Two cars regularly operated on the West Hempstead branch. Since some ten-car third rail gaps exist, the engineer had to be mindful not to "gap" his train. As the condition of the cars were allowed to deteriorate weak batteries were found to apply the brakes if the train went on a gap, rendering the train "high and dry". For many years, thereafter, few consists of less than six cars are operated.

Modern railcars roll really well too, and an MU train moving at a good clip can easily coast for many miles on its own momentum after losing power.
  by NaugyRR
 

Kelly&Kelly wrote: Since there would only be one or two third rail shoes on the entire consist, there were small pantographs atop those engines that contacted an overhead third rail on the ladders through the station's complex interlockings.
The as-delivered FL9s were built with the same set-up for the large gaps in GCT. I think the second batch of 30 had this omitted.

Sent from my SM-G930VL using Tapatalk

  by Pensyfan19
 
On a somewhat related note, does anyone have any photos of the LIRR FL9s in Penn? I can't seem to find any.
  by RestrictOnTheHanger
 
Kelly&Kelly, thanks for the informative post. It is always interesting reading your knowledgable replies.
  by dieciduej
 
Here is a picture of a Pennsy DD1 where you see the third rail contact shoes and above the engineer's cab window the small pantograph for the overhead third rails in the Penn Station switching area. I have seen a photo somewhere of the overhead third rail I just can't seem to come up with the book or a link for it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... RR_DD1.jpg
  by Kelly&Kelly
 
We wonder if the fuse for the pantograph was overhead on the ceiling as in trolley cars. Life changing experience for the engineman when one blew.

From dieciduej's photo, there were two shoes together on each unit, and the shoes were trainlined between units giving them some hundred feet between contacts. The modern MUs are trainlined between the A and B unit of each pair; about 150 feet between shoes.

Thank you for your kind words, Restrict.
  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone: Interesting photograph of the PRR DD1 - the motor looked somewhat new at that time.
Note that the third rail is the under running type - was this a test track at Westinghouse for the exhibition?

The preserved DD1 at Strasburg (RM of PA) has some of the old third rail shoes still intact - I recall that they
were larger than modern third rail shoes and reminded me of duck's feet with their shape.

The book that shows early pictures inside Penn Station was "Penn Station: Its Tunnels and Side Rodders"
I remember a photo of the overhead third rail assembly that was between A Tower and the North/Hudson
River Tunnel entrances - and the mention that overhead third rails were removed when overhead catenary
electrification was installed during the 1930s...MACTRAXX
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by Kelly&Kelly
 
Those larger shoes were known as "paddles," and broken ones still litter the LIRR rights-of-way in some of the electrified yards. I believe the MP-41s used the same shoes. They've been there for a long time.
  by newkirk
 
kelly & kelly wrote:When Penn Station was built, the Pennsy and LIRR also used DD1 electric locomotives to bring steam trains through the tunnels and into the station. Unlike most of today's electric engines, the DD1s used DC third rail for propulsion. There was no AC overhead wire in the station back then.

Since there would only be one or two third rail shoes on the entire consist, there were small pantographs atop those engines that contacted an overhead third rail on the ladders through the station's complex interlockings.
I don't see the small pantographs on the roof. I see what looks like a brass bell.
Valley Tower - circa 1940

Image
  by dieciduej
 
MACTRAXX wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:23 am Everyone: Interesting photograph of the PRR DD1 - the motor looked somewhat new at that time.
Note that the third rail is the under running type - was this a test track at Altoona noting all of the officials?
After looking at "Penn Station: Its Tunnels and Side Rodders" that picture is on Pg 137 at the Westinghouse Interworks Railworks in 1909.
MACTRAXX wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:23 amThe book that shows early pictures inside Penn Station was "Penn Station: Its Tunnels and Side Rodders"
I remember a photo of the overhead third rail assembly that was between A Tower and the North\Hudson
River Tunnel entrances - and the mention that overhead third rails were removed when overhead catenary
electrification was installed during the 1930s...MACTRAXX
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  by MACTRAXX
 
newkirk wrote: Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:53 pm
kelly & kelly wrote:When Penn Station was built, the Pennsy and LIRR also used DD1 electric locomotives to bring steam trains through the tunnels and into the station. Unlike most of today's electric engines, the DD1s used DC third rail for propulsion. There was no AC overhead wire in the station back then.

Since there would only be one or two third rail shoes on the entire consist, there were small pantographs atop those engines that contacted an overhead third rail on the ladders through the station's complex interlockings.
I don't see the small pantographs on the roof. I see what looks like a brass bell.
Valley Tower - circa 1940

Image
BM: 1940 would be not long after PRR overhead wire was installed in Penn Station and the tunnels.
The DD1 pictured has the end roof overhangs removed - which was done in an effort to "streamline" them for the
1939-1940 New York World's Fair from what I remember reading about...MACTRAXX