NYC Area Project Priorities under a Biden Stimulus

The Times has a comprehensive article today on the "wants and needs" of the NY area transit agencies.

Fair Use:

New York City who often complained of being ignored by the Trump administration, Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s arrival to the White House has set off a race to tap into the largess the new president has promised.

President Biden, who is known as Amtrak Joe for his love of trains, is widely expected to shower federal funds on projects designed to improve the nation’s creaky public transportation network. As a candidate, he vowed to spend $1.3 trillion on infrastructure, and now transit officials and advocates are pressing him to deliver.

“It’s a new day, a new dawn and a moment in our history to say, ‘Let’s act and rebuild our infrastructure,’” said Carlo A. Scissura, chief executive of the New York Building Congress, a major construction industry group.

There is no shortage of needs in the New York area, whose aging transportation network has been long neglected, but there is general agreement on the top priorities as the region tries to recover from the pandemic.

Let it be noted that every other Local level agency is "beseeching" Joe with their pitches as to the value of their service to their communities or regions.

Lest we forget, the "Feddytrough" can only be filled so high.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/10/nyre ... biden.html

The "usual suspects":

1. A bailout
2. Car tolls in Manhattan to finance projects
3. Gateway/Portal
4. LaGuardia AirTrain
5. Second Avenue Subway Phase II

The LaGuardia AirTrain is so dumb - the only way I could see it being useful is if it connected to Jamaica and the AirTrain there. Not for airport-airport traffic (a very over-stated trope) - but for the LIRR/Subway connections at Jamaica and the beginnings of an almost DLR-type network! I expect a lot of both airports' employees may use it for parking, commuting, buses... the Van Wyck will never change.

The rest aren't surprised. Second Ave should be ongoing - and needs to hit 125th before talk of what it does next.

Gateway is the big one (after debt). I do like to wonder how 12-15tph (?) might be utilized in a future where we have four tunnel tracks operationally.

cle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:45 am
Gateway is the big one (after debt). I do like to wonder how 12-15tph (?) might be utilized in a future where we have four tunnel tracks operationally.

The primary cause of delays is when one of the two North River tunnels is unexpectedly out of service due to a disabled train or unplanned tunnel operating infrastructure failure. With 4 tunnels, the delays would be minimal if any, as two tunnels would be used in the primary rush hour direction, and one in the other direction. The emergency repair or removal of the disabled train in the 4th tunnel would thus not impact other trains.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:06 pm The Times has a comprehensive article today on the "wants and needs" of the NY area transit agencies.

Apologies didn't see your post!

Do not forget that there are a certain number of airport employees and a few passengers that use both LGA and JFK depending on certain circumstances.

west point wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:28 pm Do not forget that there are a certain number of airport employees and a few passengers that use both LGA and JFK depending on certain circumstances.

So we build a transit system for a couple thousand pilots and flight attendants that work out of both airports from time to time?

LGA Airtrain is a boondoggle. Better yet, close LGA and concentrate everything at JFK and EWR....

I fly into and out of LGA about once a month. It's still a mess, but I think after the current work is done, it's going to be much nicer. That said, access is a huge issue.

-Is the AirTrain to Willets ill-conceived? Probably. Might be better to put it at Woodside.

-Extending the AirTrain from Jamaica to LGA? That might have some use, and not just for workers or transfers, but because Jamaica is a major transit center. That would help from eastern LI. I would purposely fly out of JFK when I lived on eastern LI because of the AirTrain.

-Anything subway related would really require a new Plane to the Train and an extension off either the Astoria line, or one of the other Division B lines. No one is going to want a new elevated down their street.

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:06 am

west point wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:28 pm Do not forget that there are a certain number of airport employees and a few passengers that use both LGA and JFK depending on certain circumstances.

So we build a transit system for a couple thousand pilots and flight attendants that work out of both airports from time to time?

LGA Airtrain is a boondoggle. Better yet, close LGA and concentrate everything at JFK and EWR....

Did JFK and EWR have capacity (pre-pandemic) to handle LGA's airline traffic?

To be honest, you're better off moving LGA than building a badly planned out AirTrain... and if you're not willing to move LGA, then build a new subway line like I've described elsewhere in this forum: Do a Division B off the T from 125th street (bonus points to connect it to the 1, A/B/C/D, 2/3, and 4/5/6 stations) across the Harlem and East River, under I-278 to Laguardia, and then tie it to the 7 at Mets-Willets, continue down to to tie it to the E/F in Forrest Hills. Then you can hit the old Rockaways line all the way down, hitting the J/Z, and joining the A. You got your airline service, your cross-connect to Jamaica, what have you.

Not a bad idea. I wonder if the Triboro could support a two-track subway.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:49 am Did JFK and EWR have capacity (pre-pandemic) to handle LGA's airline traffic?

Flight for flight, no, but if you eliminate overlapping services on the same airline, there's a lot of duplication that can be eliminated. Looking at United, there's nowhere from LGA that doesn't also have service from EWR. Delta is more or less the same as far as all LGA served markets also having service from JFK. JetBlue and Southwest?... all overlap markets.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:14 am Not a bad idea. I wonder if the Triboro could support a two-track subway.

Elevated or sunk, just skipping a lot of the crowd in Manhattan just to get even to JFK from 125th street, that I think would be worth it.

eolesen wrote:

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:49 am Did JFK and EWR have capacity (pre-pandemic) to handle LGA's airline traffic?

Flight for flight, no, but if you eliminate overlapping services on the same airline, there's a lot of duplication that can be eliminated. Looking at United, there's nowhere from LGA that doesn't also have service from EWR. Delta is more or less the same as far as all LGA served markets also having service from JFK. JetBlue and Southwest?... all overlap markets.

You need flight-to-flight, because of how hopping NYC is(or was, pre-pandemic). If you dropped the overlap, you'd have to load up the NJ Transit, LIRR, and MTA Subways more... and with how traffic was then? I can't see it now. The load on all those systems I think would be too great.

I can see BWI getting an AirTrain from the Amtrak station and remote parking to the airport to the outside Light Rail station to more remote parking. I can see LGA getting a subway line. I can't see an AirTrain for LGA -- I think the load is too great for LGA.

LGE AirTrain could/would also serve as a shuttle to a new car rental facility at Willets Point, freeing up space at the airport. Seems AirTrain is happening, though Gov. Cuomo's status in office could change.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:49 am Did JFK and EWR have capacity (pre-pandemic) to handle LGA's airline traffic?

No.

And neither one is in anywhere near as convenient a location as LGA. There's a reason this cramped thing originally built for seaplanes is still in use.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:49 amTo be honest, you're better off moving LGA than building a badly planned out AirTrain... and if you're not willing to move LGA, then build a new subway line like I've described elsewhere in this forum: Do a Division B off the T from 125th street (bonus points to connect it to the 1, A/B/C/D, 2/3, and 4/5/6 stations) across the Harlem and East River, under I-278 to Laguardia, and then tie it to the 7 at Mets-Willets, continue down to to tie it to the E/F in Forrest Hills. Then you can hit the old Rockaways line all the way down, hitting the J/Z, and joining the A. You got your airline service, your cross-connect to Jamaica, what have you.

That would be far the most sensible thing to do. Which means it will never, ever happen. Because it would require the Port Authority to cooperate with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority instead of building up its own ridiculous little railroad network that is incompatible with everything else in North America.

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:27 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:49 am Did JFK and EWR have capacity (pre-pandemic) to handle LGA's airline traffic?

Flight for flight, no, but if you eliminate overlapping services on the same airline, there's a lot of duplication that can be eliminated. Looking at United, there's nowhere from LGA that doesn't also have service from EWR. Delta is more or less the same as far as all LGA served markets also having service from JFK. JetBlue and Southwest?... all overlap markets.

(All this is pre-Covid.) Airlines don't fly many half-empty flights. EWR often tops the list for delays nationwide, with either LGA or JFK or both on the list, but lower. I had a United pilot at EWR tell us that the apron traffic there is as bad as the road traffic getting in. I don't know when EWR went from under-used to over-used, but it has happened.