Amtrak suspends Vermont lines

hrsn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:26 pm Is Amtrak the kind of organization where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing? Suspending service past NYP and a new station at Brattleboro....

I’m sure both hands Amtrak has is connected to the same brain.

Vermont subsidizes the train into Vermont, not along the NEC south of New York City.
Meanwhile, Amtrak is about to introduce 28 new Acela 2 trainsets to replace the 20 they have now. Which trains will have to go to make room for the additional 8 trainsets along the NEC?

Think about it a while, you really did not think Amtrak could run an additional 8 trainsets on a full corridor without eliminating others, did you?

Then you have to account for decrease ridership nationally on trains, ships, and planes this year. The entire travel industry is about to go bankrupt. Those that will survive are those willing to cut services during this low, keeping supply the same as demand.

Vermont has basically shut itself to the outside world. I don’t see these trains running to Vermont until COVID is a diminished threat.

I am surprised that it is still running as separate train on the NEC. At this point just make it another Northeast Regional train or even a Keystone extension if the Washington to Philadelphia volume is very low.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:16 pm Vermont has basically shut itself to the outside world. I don’t see these trains running to Vermont until COVID is a diminished threat.

I am surprised that it is still running as separate train on the NEC. At this point just make it another Northeast Regional train or even a Keystone extension if the Washington to Philadelphia volume is very low.

If is surprising they use the Vermonter name for the truncated train. Accounting wise this train is a Northeast Regional and that’s where the ridership is being assigned. Even in normal times if you take the Vermonter from New York to DC you are a “Northeast Regional” passenger according to the books. Vermonter is HLK-SAB only.

They ought to extend it up to at least Springfield, if not Greenfield for the holiday and winter season.

There was a picture posted to Facebook the other day (Metro North group IIRC) showing the "Vermonter" being turned on the loop track at New Haven. Appearently it's a very rare move for Amtrak trains to use that track.

For the life of me I've never understood why the Vermonter is not a New Haven - Hartford - Springfield - VT stops train, fed by NEC trains. If it's only running DC - NYP, then it's a poor man's regional.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:32 pm For the life of me I've never understood why the Vermonter is not a New Haven - Hartford - Springfield - VT stops train, fed by NEC trains. If it's only running DC - NYP, then it's a poor man's regional.

The Vermonter was originally (in 1995) just another WAS-NYP-NHV-SPG train, just extended north to Vermont, which the state of VT subsidized north of Springfield (MA). Today (well, pre-COVID), CT, MA, and VT subsidize the train north of New Haven. Since its a regular corridor train south of NHV, that's probably why it was operating that far in the present state of affairs.

There is a fair amount of traffic from points north of SPG heading to (at least) New York City. Sure, the Vermonter could be operated as a NHV-SAB-(Montreal) train, but requiring passengers to change in New Haven is a turn-off for some, even if it is just a same-platform transfer. The Vermonter is popular with college students and with the elderly. The college kids often have some carryons with them and a change would require shlepping your bags from one train to another. And most likely, that connecting train is a regional down from Boston, which probably would require searching to find seats (again, pre-COVID levels). Older folks may have difficulty making the transfer as well, as its just a lot more convenient and comforting to know that you'll be on the same train without a transfer.

In the pre-electrification days, it would be possible to just add the Vermonter's cars to/from the corridor train at NHV, during the then-often change of power. This was done for the Springfield shuttle trains until just before the start of all-electric service to BOS (now the 400-series shuttles make a cross-platform connection). While a car was removed - NB/added -SB to the Vermonter at NHV up until earlier this year, it was unoccupied during the transfer and could be done as part of the engine change.

Jeff Smith wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:32 pm For the life of me I've never understood why the Vermonter is not a New Haven - Hartford - Springfield - VT stops train, fed by NEC trains. If it's only running DC - NYP, then it's a poor man's regional.

I assume the Vermonter was being turned at New Haven as this allowed for only one set of equipment to be used. As for making it a New Haven to St Albans trains there's no commissary at either end to stock the train. I assume the toilets are pumped out by a truck at St Albans and the P42 refueled by another truck.

I believe Vermont only pays for the train north of Springfield. South and west of there it's just another NEC regional train. The train is limited to just 6 cars, which is short for an NEC regional, as that's all that will fit on the tail track of the wye at St Albans.

I believe from Springfield to Greenfield, MA funds the Vermonter and then north of Greenfield, Vermont does so. As far as the turnaround at NHV goes, yes, Amtrak did that because of probably only wanting to use one trainset. It would have been great to have the Vermonter end in Springfield but that would have involved using two trainsets. Plus where in SPG would the train layover besides the station?

RRspatch wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:19 am There was a picture posted to Facebook the other day (Metro North group IIRC) showing the "Vermonter" being turned on the loop track at New Haven. Appearently it's a very rare move for Amtrak trains to use that track.

I suspect that this is the image that was posted on Facebook.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/755756/

The given is the state has "closed" itself off due to covid, the hope is to keep T&E crews qualified till the state "reopens" itself again to tourism

Train60 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:04 am

RRspatch wrote: ↑Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:19 am There was a picture posted to Facebook the other day (Metro North group IIRC) showing the "Vermonter" being turned on the loop track at New Haven. Appearently it's a very rare move for Amtrak trains to use that track.

I suspect that this is the image that was posted on Facebook.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/755756/

Yes, that's the one. I generally don't link to FB especially if it's a closed or private group that not everyone can see.

"Vermonter is HLK-SAB only": what's HLK? I wish people would use names instead of initials. I know it costs extra keystrokes and bits and so on, but sometimes OS* has trouble understanding.
*old Steve

"A poor man's regional": I've ridden the Vermonter to and from Vermont a few times, but it also is a conveniently timed regional north from Washington, but when I've wanted to ride from Washington to Trenton or Newark, the seats on the Vermonter cost more than the other Regionals. POS!*
*Poor old Steve