All things Harrisburg (Keystone) Line

hxa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:29 am The line between CHARLES and GROVE was still a 261 territory by 2016 according to the employee timetable posted on https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/59500-59999 ... 599688.pdf . The 562 territory has been slowly extending from DE/MD border to the south (BACON to Prince, OAK to BUSH to WOOD), and is highly unlikely to reach Baltimore in a year or two.

It'll probably hit with the Circle Tunnels (the B&P replacement). But that's getting off topic.

Back on the Harrisburg line, I hope they set the blocks nicely. I'm all for longer blocks but in some places... I'd like more interlocks as well, namely at both ends of major stations. I'm more towards a balance of operational flexibility, and I see a lot of places where it isn't.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:39 pm Does that include removing Bryn Mawr interlocking in favor of crossovers east and west of Villanova (VILLA and NOVA?), or is that a separate project?

Separate project

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:43 am

hxa wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:29 am The line between CHARLES and GROVE was still a 261 territory by 2016 according to the employee timetable posted on https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/59500-59999 ... 599688.pdf . The 562 territory has been slowly extending from DE/MD border to the south (BACON to Prince, OAK to BUSH to WOOD), and is highly unlikely to reach Baltimore in a year or two.

It'll probably hit with the Circle Tunnels (the B&P replacement). But that's getting off topic.

Back on the Harrisburg line, I hope they set the blocks nicely. I'm all for longer blocks but in some places... I'd like more interlocks as well, namely at both ends of major stations. I'm more towards a balance of operational flexibility, and I see a lot of places where it isn't.

Well this is a busy commuter line especially east of Malvern. I am curious how the interlocking situation looks compared to other busy commuter lines.

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:24 am Well this is a busy commuter line especially east of Malvern. I am curious how the interlocking situation looks compared to other busy commuter lines.

Pulling up Wikimapia... from 30th Street out to Harrisburg, list of Interlocks that allow full 1-2-3-4 moves:

• PENN (aka 30th Street station)
• ZOO
• OVERBROOK
• BRYN MAWR
• PAOLI (Reduction to 2 track operation)
• DOWNS (3 track operation)
• THORN
• PARK (2 track operation here)
• CONESTOGA/CORK (around Lancaster)
• RHEEMS
• ROY (Royalton - back to 3 track operation)
• STATE (Harrisburg station and wye)

Compared with the NEC between CHARLES and K... I'm not sure. Interlocks over distance it's less, but you don't have many stations past Thorndale... it tends to spread out past Paoli and the SEPTA schedule thins out as well. It's also 4-track between PENN and PAOLI. In comparison, Baltimore to DC is CHARLES, FULTON, GROVE, BOWIE, CARROL, LANDOVER, and K... There's MARC stations consistently through the line, and the line has operational challenges with BWI and the B&P Tunnels. (Only fixable with a new tunnel, 4-tracks to GROVE and rebuilding BWI again)

Going through this exercise made me think a bit more on the line. It's likely good on the interlocks (provided they don't remove any).

FYI 2 Track from Downs east to Glen is 15 MPH so other than for the freight it's effectively useless.

CNJGeep wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:40 pm FYI 2 Track from Downs east to Glen is 15 MPH so other than for the freight it's effectively useless.

The track cannot be accessed from the high level platforms at Exton.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:54 pm


[*]ROY (Royalton - back to 3 track operation)

Still 2 track operation. The 3rd track is just the NS Roy branch running parallel. I'm guessing the only reason that is a full interlocking was to allow access to the MIDH from the Roy branch if needed. (and the old Amtrak Roy yard track which is now gone, I believe).

gp80mac wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:04 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:54 pm


[*]ROY (Royalton - back to 3 track operation)

Still 2 track operation. The 3rd track is just the NS Roy branch running parallel. I'm guessing the only reason that is a full interlocking was to allow access to the MIDH from the Roy branch if needed. (and the old Amtrak Roy yard track which is now gone, I believe).

Correct. The existing Middletown station only serves 2 of the 3 tracks.

The new station at Middletown will also use two tracks with a center island platform. http://www.planthekeystone.com/Pages/Mi ... oject.aspx

Some of the maps here show 2 Amtrak tracks and one NS track.

rcthompson04 wrote:The new station at Middletown will also use two tracks with a center island platform. http://www.planthekeystone.com/Pages/Mi ... oject.aspx

Some of the maps here show 2 Amtrak tracks and one NS track.

Looks like Amtrak Paoli'd Middletown by using the space where two express tracks used to be for an island platform (not counting the NS track) thus causing a bottleneck and prevention of express service.

Pensyfan19 wrote:Looks like Amtrak Paoli'd Middletown by using the space where two express tracks used to be for an island platform (not counting the NS track) thus causing a bottleneck and prevention of express service.

It was already 2 tracks there so they really didn't Paoli anything. And what bottleneck? At most there is hourly service. Not really a need for trains to pass each other.

The overpasses they replaced in middletown a few years ago - do they even have spans for all 4 tracks anymore?

From Royalton to Harrisburg was always two double-track railroads side by side, the northern pair being mainly passenger tracks from Lancaster and the Southern pair basically for freight trains from Columbia (and the Port Road). West of Middletown the freight tracks ducked under the other two, coming up on the north side, passing the Harrisburg passenger platforms to the (compass) east and continuing to Harrisburg yard (trains for Enola crossed the Susquehanna River on Shocks Bridge just after Columbia). I'd guess (without checking) that when the Corridor was conveyed to Amtrak the whole Royalton Branch remained with (Conrail, by that time?) and subsequentlly to NS. Is that trackage even wired anymore?

No, the Port Road line and the Royalton Branch are no longer wired. Conrail pulled down all the catenary over it's tracks in 1985.

Speaking of Paoli, the property needed for the new Darby Road bridge, which will replace the Valley Road Bridge at the station, appears to have been vacated by all the tenants as of last week. Phase 2 of the station rebuild will allow for a third track to be rebuilt through the station on the westbound side.

Is there an interlocking planned for Ardmore so Amtrak does not have to run on the outside tracks between Bryn Mawr and Overbrook? Similar to Metropark on the NEC.