Viewliner II Delivery/Production

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:59 pm They still are not going to do this for an additional reason. Sleeper would need a car attendant. And what do you do with the additional car? do you loose a 72 seat amfleet 1 that could possibly sell 30 plus tickets in place for a 15 room viewliner? or do you add the car to the train which then makes 7 revenue cars and requires to pay another brakeman?

Mr. Approach, I hear you.

Possibly Amtrak makes the effort in the Corridor to hold "normal consists" to six cars so they need only assign Conductor and Asst (Attendant counts, to my knowledge, towards the "one man for two cars rule"). Also "back in my day" Brakemen did not handle revenue, and I'd guess retitling the 2nd position as Asst enables both to handle such.

I would think Mr. JP is hardly suggesting Day Rooms as some "Coach+" service as is Corridor Business, but rather a "smack it too 'em" (@, say, $350 NY-Wash) with the intent of 75% occupancy "making book". I know if I were "out there" I'd pay it because 1) I can, and 2) I'm not into the "moshing pit" scene - COVID notwithstanding.

Amtrak dropped the consists to 7 cars, 6 revenue cars as soon as the ridership dropped at the start of covid. They did this to avoid paying the head brake jobs per the work rules. They reduced sleepers on some trains to also avoid the car attendent work rules as well i am not sure what they are. but i think you need at least one per sleeper if there is more than 2 sleepers crew dorms etc.

jp1822 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:17 pm Likewise, I don't think we will ever see the restoration of daily LD Amtrak trains, this is just the beginning of the "end."

Can’t say I agree with this based on Congressional hearings I have watched. I would not be surprised to see whatever Covid relief Amtrak gets to have daily service as a condition. Mr. Flynn repeatedly iterated that management and the board have “gotten the message” and that there is absolutely no plan to make this change permanent. So unless they are outright lying to their employer (congress)... I just don’t see it.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:34 pm Amtrak dropped the consists to 7 cars, 6 revenue cars as soon as the ridership dropped at the start of covid. They did this to avoid paying the head brake jobs per the work rules.

Mr. Approach, while I guess Crew Consists should be more appropriately discussed at another topic, we seem to be on it here.

Apparently Train calls for one Conductor and an Assistant for every three additional "revenue" cars. While the Conductor is "boss" the Assistants are Rules Qualified, Amtrak and host, and handle revenue.

On the Engine, of course an Engineer, but where the run is scheduled for six hours or greater, an Assistant will be assigned. That Assistant is Rules Qualified, and FRA licensed to operate the Engine.

On Board Attendants, one for each full Sleeping Car; otherwise assigned at Carrier's prerogative.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:18 am Mr. Approach, while I guess Crew Consists should be more appropriately discussed at another topic, we seem to be on it here.

Apparently Train calls for one Conductor and an Assistant for every three additional "revenue" cars. While the Conductor is "boss" the Assistants are Rules Qualified, Amtrak and host, and handle revenue.

On the Engine, of course an Engineer, but where the run is scheduled for six hours or greater, an Assistant will be assigned. That Assistant is Rules Qualified, and FRA licensed to operate the Engine.

On Board Attendants, one for each full Sleeping Car; otherwise assigned at Carrier's prerogative.

Tangential question. Is the FRA license specific to the engine model, or some other quality?

Word on another board is that Viewliner II sleepers are beginning to be rolled out on the Silvers. A trip report on the Meteor revealed the presence of a VL2 sleeper apparently on its second run.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:51 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:18 am Mr. Approach, while I guess Crew Consists should be more appropriately discussed at another topic, we seem to be on it here.

Apparently Train calls for one Conductor and an Assistant for every three additional "revenue" cars. While the Conductor is "boss" the Assistants are Rules Qualified, Amtrak and host, and handle revenue.

On the Engine, of course an Engineer, but where the run is scheduled for six hours or greater, an Assistant will be assigned. That Assistant is Rules Qualified, and FRA licensed to operate the Engine.

On Board Attendants, one for each full Sleeping Car; otherwise assigned at Carrier's prerogative.

Tangential question. Is the FRA license specific to the engine model, or some other quality?

Its two engineers both assigned to the same crew base, same qualifications, same operational abilities and capacity. And its any run over 4 hours, not 6. the NEC has an exception for this. As far as the crew consists goes its any train beyond 6 revenue cars that is the only car count mentioned. I believe the conductors side is actually in their labor agreement. If they have more than 6 revenue cars in the train (cafes DO NOT count) then they must have an additional head brakeman. If they are ordered out without one, due to shortages, service disruptions etc its an additional days pay penalty claim. So you bet your booty they are not going to make the trains longer than they should. This will apply to the long distance trains as well, again considering Cafe, Diner cars do not count. I think the baggage car does count since they need to be able to load and unload the baggage at stops.

I have been seeing view 2s get sent on southbound trains out of sunnyside for the last few weeks. so more must have come in.

I am pretty sure it is 6 hours , as some of the Engineer only crew districts on the long distance services cannot be done in 4 hours. Maybe 4 hours for the split shift ?

Mr. Approach, I wholly respect "you do this stuff for a living", but wasn't one of the reasons cited regarding the '13 varietal of Frankford Jct was that Mr. Bostian had only a 1.5hr break at WAS between runs. The assigned couplet in question (2??? -188) was Engineer Only. He was on "continuous time" for Hours of Service.

Mr. Benton, regarding your immediate, Mr. Approach notes there is a Local Agreement on the Corridor reducing the time from the six hours specified in the National to four.

One thing I learned during the three years of my railroad career spent in Labor Relations was always check for Local Agreements, for they are binding at the applicable locality, and when you are with a 10000 mile road such as I was, there can be plenty of such.

ApproachMedium wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:47 pm

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:51 am Tangential question. Is the FRA license specific to the engine model, or some other quality?

Its two engineers both assigned to the same crew base, same qualifications, same operational abilities and capacity. And its any run over 4 hours, not 6. the NEC has an exception for this. As far as the crew consists goes its any train beyond 6 revenue cars that is the only car count mentioned. I believe the conductors side is actually in their labor agreement. If they have more than 6 revenue cars in the train (cafes DO NOT count) then they must have an additional head brakeman. If they are ordered out without one, due to shortages, service disruptions etc its an additional days pay penalty claim. So you bet your booty they are not going to make the trains longer than they should. This will apply to the long distance trains as well, again considering Cafe, Diner cars do not count. I think the baggage car does count since they need to be able to load and unload the baggage at stops.

I have been seeing view 2s get sent on southbound trains out of sunnyside for the last few weeks. so more must have come in.

Um... what does this have to do with my question (quoted above)?

Not specific to any locomotive type. The FRA is more interested in safety protocols adopted by the railroad, crew familiarity with the specific corridor, and having a sober and an alert crew than they are on the crew actually running specific locomotives. Which locomotive type is more aligned on what your boss will allow you to drive.

electricron wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:03 pm Not specific to any locomotive type. The FRA is more interested in safety protocols adopted by the railroad, crew familiarity with the specific corridor, and having a sober and an alert crew than they are on the crew actually running specific locomotives. Which locomotive type is more aligned on what your boss will allow you to drive.

Ahhh, good to note. Thanks.

So do we know which routes have the Viewliner II's now?

Mr. Wolf, there is a report at another site that there is a line of VII-S's now assigned to the "Meteor/Star". That's four cars in consists, plus one protect each at SSY and HIA.

If there is foundation, thank goodness they're doing something.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:06 am Mr. Approach, I wholly respect "you do this stuff for a living", but wasn't one of the reasons cited regarding the '13 varietal of Frankford Jct was that Mr. Bostian had only a 1.5hr break at WAS between runs. The assigned couplet in question (2??? -188) was Engineer Only. He was on "continuous time" for Hours of Service.

The 188 incident falls under the NEC rules and we are SUPPOSED to get 1.5hrs at least (90 mins?0 between runs and that was cut short by the West/southbound run having cab signal failure requiring operating at 79mph which is much lower than the acela speeds. Again the 4 hour running time thing is an exception from the NEC, off corridor is a different story. This is why Albany runs engineers to Syracuse and changes there with buffalo to avoid this also.

Viewliner II sleepers Portage River and Roanoke River have just been delivered from the CAF plant to Albany. Hopefully a good sign of Amtrak still investing in equipment for their eastern LDs despite reduction to tri-weekly service for the next few months.