If you could restore a defunct Amtrak route

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:42 am

mtuandrew wrote: ↑Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:16 pm Keep in mind we are talking Amtrak restoration, not MARC or VRE excursions.

I think the idea here is to use MARC/VRE to convince Amtrak and other powers-that-be that such a service is viable.

Heh... and to think I'm working on routing another "excursion" for another novel... but that's a separate topic.

Snowpiercer 2: the electric boogaloo?

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:47 amSnowpiercer 2: the electric boogaloo?

There’s already three Snowpiercer graphic novels. We ought to be up to Snowpiercer 4: Snow Free or Train Hard

Anyway, back to Amtrak

Not reading back thru the last twenty pages, but did anyone mention the Cape Codder? That was a summer weekend only service from NYP up the corridor out to the Cape. Really a wonderful way to get out there. At Buzzards Bay, there was a connection to the Falmouth Branch using the tourist train or you could continue on to the middle of the Cape. This had to be one of the more obscure Amtrak runs.

"I think the idea here is to use MARC/VRE to convince Amtrak and other powers-that-be that such a service is viable." Yes, that's what I meant. I don't think Amtrak would start even an experimental service without some indication that a lot of people would ride. As I recall (I might be wrong) the Amtrak Blue Ridge, way back when, had a weekend schedule oriented to bringing people from the Washington, DC, area to Harpers Ferry for the day. I don't know whether the market is really there, only that people seemed to ask about it at every public event we held. I've heard it suggested too that such a service could continue a few miles past Harper's Ferry to the Hollywood casino at Charles Town.

Awful lot of similarities between this "Cub Reporter's" story and an advocacy group's press release:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2 ... 315943001/ (not supported by IE11; Chrome or Edge OK)

Amtrak is planning to expand passenger train service in Ohio that would include routes stretching from Cincinnati as far north as Cleveland, plus four times a day service between Cincinnati and Chicago. But it needs new funding from Congress to do it.

Plans also call for expanded service to Michigan, Pennsylvania and New York state.

In total, Amtrak officials are pursuing federal funds for five new routes, according to a press release:

Four daily round trips with intermediate station stops between Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Chicago. Currently, there are three one-way trips between Cincinnati and Chicago each week.]
Three daily round trips with intermediate station stops in Ohio between Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus and Cleveland.
Three daily round trips with intermediate station stops between Chicago, Cleveland, Toledo and Detroit.
Two daily round trips with intermediate station stops between Cleveland and Buffalo, New York.
And, one daily round trip with intermediate station stops between Cleveland and Pittsburgh.

http://allaboardohio.org/2021/01/29/amt ... io-routes/

Amtrak representatives are making the rounds in Ohio, meeting with leaders in cities where they plan to expand services according to a blueprint the passenger rail company developed in conjunction with state and federal transportation officials. The goal, the Amtrak representatives said, is to pursue passenger rail expansion on five routes that would be initiated using 100 percent federal funds through a proposed new rail program. The five new routes are:
Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati (3C) Corridor: three daily round trips with intermediate station stops;
Cincinnati-Indianapolis-Chicago: four daily round trips with intermediate station stops;
Cleveland-Toledo-Detroit-Pontiac: three daily round trips with intermediate station stops, including a possible extension of Wolverine Corridor train service from Chicago;
Cleveland-Buffalo-Albany-New York: two daily round trips with intermediate station stops;
Cleveland-Pittsburgh-New York: one daily round trip with intermediate station stops via an extension of Keystone Corridor train service.

The new federal passenger rail program depends on support from Congress and the new Biden Administration. President Joe Biden, a longtime passenger rail supporter, has vowed a “second great railroad revolution.” And last year the U.S. House of Representatives passed the proposed new rail funding program but it died in the U.S. Senate. Now, with a split Senate under new leadership, the bill has a good chance to become reality.

Of interest, the Amtrak media page is "quite silent" regarding this whole matter.

"We report, you decide".

I'm sure CSX & NS are absolutely thrilled with this proposal.

National Limited! Ridiculous that you can't go anywhere in the east from the midwest or west without going through Chicago.

National Limited would be nice, but a bit impossible currently; perhaps a Big Four routing from Cleveland to Indianapolis then west from there to St.Louis and maybe Kansas City.

East to West via Crescent / Sunset Limited exists. Not a good connection, though.

Right now is probably not the best time for service expansions. Service restorations need to come first.

Funneling service through the nation's third largest city makes more sense than running a train that misses the city by a couple hundred miles unless that train is full and other trains serve Chicago. Reliable connections would be needed if trains are re-routed away from current paths - for example, sending the Capital Limited or Lake Shore Limited southwest at Cleveland to St Louis instead of west to Chicago.

Connections are the biggest problem on the national network. You can't get from Toledo to Detroit on a train without going to Chicago. The multiple regional routes through Ohio noted in Mr Norman's post would help with connections - but are virtual non-starters thanks to PRIIA. One would need to come up with a route through Detroit to Toledo and beyond that was over 750 miles. Detroit to Jacksonville anyone? Buffalo to St Louis via Cincinnati and Indianapolis is long enough to create a Cleveland to Cincinnati connection in the middle. If a connection is worth building it is worth building regardless of who is paying for the trains. A national network should not be ruined by state budgets.

I wonder who the "Amtrak representatives" are that are shopping the new routes. Hopefully people with the authority to make proposals. With Amtrak in survival mode I am surprised that anyone is seeking extensions. They would need money to "build back better" that has not yet been allocated and (as noted) would need support from Ohio or other states served due to PRIIA limitations. The federally funded "3C" route does not exist today because the federal funds ended at building the service and relied on Ohio to fund operational costs that the state did not want to commit.

"However, for Ohio to gain new passenger services, the Ohio Department of Transportation will have to request it from Amtrak or other operators. Once an agreement is in place with a state entity, Amtrak may pay up to 100 percent of the capital costs to initiate new or additional services. Amtrak may also provide 100 percent of the operating costs in the first two years, 90 percent in the third year, 80 percent in the fourth year and 50 percent in the fifth year. After that, the new service must be state supported in the same manner that 16 other states currently purchase service from Amtrak." (All Aboard Ohio)

Broadway Limited via Ft. Wayne
Floridian through Chattanooga, Atlanta and Macon.
Sunset East NOL to Orlando.
S line Petersburg to Raleigh and put The Silver Star and Carolinian on that route
Only do Desert Wind SLC to LV. Brightline is already working on the other part.
Front Range Cheyanne WY to El Paso TX and hitting all the cities between
Reroute the Sunset through Phoenix AZ
The Ohio service 3-Cs
Do not put any Amtrak on the FEC. Would only compete with Brightline.
And for God's sake fix the Richmond - DC tie-ups.
Oh yeah Gateway bridges and tunnels and 3 or 4 tracks on the NEC Boston to Richmond.
Just some thoughts.

Interesting they mentioned a Cleveland/Buffalo/Albany/NYC train.

I could see extending one of the existing Empire service trains to do that. Not sure how practical.
That said, I'd still prefer I think a Detroit/Buffalo extension. Run it as a "sealed" train for now, discuss options post pandemic.

But that said, the options discussed seem, at least semi-reasonable, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I'm still waiting for Quad Cities service!

Greg Moore wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:25 pm Interesting they mentioned a Cleveland/Buffalo/Albany/NYC train.

Extend it to Montauk and you've got a passenger train covering the entire length of the Empire State in a
one-seat ride.

RDB,UP wants too much $$$$$$$ to restore the Phoenix Sub Rail removed near Kofa AZ,what remains past Buckeye AZ is car storage at best.

West of Buffalo, if not an extended Empire Service train, what about a Buffalo-Chicago run. Since Niagara Falls seems to be a terminal probably NF-Chicago through Buffalo at Exchange St station then west. How much traffic goes through Depew compared to Exchange Street? But that routing was not an Amtrak routing but NYC.

I guess the Niagara Rainbow as a sealed train for US passengers, Canada car[s] for those coming from US after cleared and originating traffic to go to US. A joint VIA-Amtrak operation possible? Then run it like The Wolverine all the way to Chicago.