Amtrak Auto Train Discussion

Today's Northbound Silver Service trains from Florida seem to be starting in Jacksonville, although a Northbound Auto Trains seems to be scheduled. No Auto Trains departed on Mar. 27.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:47 am Now one must wonder for its (timetable) Northbound Lakeland to Sanford run, did they get CSX power to handle the train backwards or did they wye the train at Lakeland and head North forward?

They used their own engines for the detour and they didn't wye the train so much as they just took a left from the Wildowwod Sub to the Lakeland Sub.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:47 am I think "life would have been simpler" had not Coleman-Auburndale been yanked. Life would have been further simplified had they hired CSX power and operated the train backwards to Sanford.

There have been reports at other sites that 53(26) operated forward Lakeland to Sanford. If that be the case, how will they wye the equipment? This is necessary because the entire operation is based on cars with "A-end" facing Northward and with the auto carriers placed so that vehicles are loaded facing North at LOR and South at SFA; unloaded v.v.

Very succinctly, think of AT as a "shuttle".

EKG was a "genius"; and Amtrak acquired all his institutional expertise - for One Dollar.

Thoughts; especially from those around here "who do this stuff for a living".

Why do they need to wye the equipment? The entire premise of setting up the Auto traIn consist is to eliminate the need to wye it. You merely run around it. Even the Auto Carriers allow for through movement so they don't need pointing.

When the Auto train arrives from the south, instead of pulling in and dropping the carriers for positioning, the train would back in and the yard crew would pull them off and position them prior to spotting the train.

The only real issue, in this case, would be the vehicles in the carriers would be pointed towards the stub end of the platform. As such, isntead of the drivers pulling them out, they would need to back them out.

This is hardly the end of the world nor is it worthy of leasing expensive power from CSX to go on a 300 mile detour.

Even if this an issue, there IS a wye attached to SFD. It probably holds 12 cars and an engine on the shortest leg, which stub ends. If want the consist changed, you can even flat switch them if you want since there is plenty of room.

There are tons of options.

ThirdRail7 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:24 pm Even if this an issue, there IS a wye attached to SFD. It probably holds 12 cars and an engine on the shortest leg, which stub ends. If want the consist changed, you can even flat switch them if you want since there is plenty of room.

I know there is a wye there but that shortest leg looks a bit impassable at least on Google Earth.

Well Mr. Third Rail, I'm sure glad you stepped forward with your contemporary industry expertise. Thank you for your agreement that the AT is a "shuttle" and that it was necessary to somehow, someway wye the set comprising 53(26).

But if you are a YM at SSY, as your comments around here suggest, I'm not so sure how happy you'd be over directing the movement of equipment over the trackage Mr. Trainguy located. When driving into town on SR-46, I've seen that trackage first hand.

But I guess it could be done if they broke the set into "workable" sized parts and minimized blocking US-17/SR-46 (French Ave.).

But then, as Mr. Railnut has reminded this Forum on occasion, I was just "a Non-Agreement office boy", so what do I know?

Finally , you note that the (outside contractor) Valets might have had to back the autos out of the racks when they were spotted at SFA (SFD, as I recall, was the Station Code for the former ACL station). Guarantee you I'd be less than happy if MY auto was handled in such a manner. EKG designed (or got credit for designing) a Ro-Ro system for handling vehicles so it not be necessary they be operated in reverse (of course, when I give my auto to Valets at hotels or restaurants, I sort of X my fingers and look the other way).

Today's Southbound Auto Train is Near Richmond, Virginia, the Northbound is scheduled, but not reported.

Train Status reports 52(28) dep SFA 140ML

And silver service terminating once again at Jacksonville tomorrow. They must be continuing restoration work and are only able to handle 52/53 at the moment through the problem area.

So looking at the rail layout for possible reroutes via OpenRailwayMap and checking with with Google Maps...

...No route north of Sanford before the accident to route along the Florida East Coast Railroad. The rails have been raised.

Only way around it is to express JAX to West Palm Beach and then backtrack to Tampa and Orlando. There's just not enough rail.

phillyrube wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:48 am Cant have been much, nothing in local news last night.

It didn't bleed so it didn't lead.

rhallock wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:55 pm I just spoke with my sister who was on the train. They arrived in Lorton safely and Amtrak is providing a rental car with a $100 credit card. She only found out that her car was among the missing when her name was not called to pick it up. Regarding the cancelled trains, There is an alternate route via Wildwood and Ocala that Amtrak used to use. I rode it myself once. Is there any good reason why this is not being used now? The Silver Star (#92) was in Tampa yesterday afternoon. How hard would it have been to go north that way instead of making everyone go back home?

The S line is not a current Amtrak route, therefore, Amtrak has no qualified personnel. CSX operating under PSR edicts likely doesn't have sufficient personnel to provide pilots for the unqualified Amtrak crews.

Is the owner of this segment currently CFRC with dispatch by CSX? My understanding was CFRC only dispatches the section up to Debary that sunrail actually runs on but owns portions further to the north with dispatch still by CSX. Please correct me if I am incorrect:

bostontrainguy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:34 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:47 am EKG was a "genius"; and Amtrak acquired all his institutional expertise - for One Dollar.

I don't know about that. My understanding is that he basically stole the idea from the DOT and he was not a good CEO. The expansion and the wrecks of course did it in.

I personally did believe in the concept and lost a lot of money that I invested. I was in mourning when I saw pics of those unique cars being cut up for scrap. I will add that I was lucky enough to ride the original and it was a wonderful experience. Those full length dome cars were very special.

So hats off to Mr. Garfield for at least pulling it off. He wasn't a "genius" or good businessman but he did create something special especially with his selection of cool rolling stock.

He was probably a good politician and lawyer, which inspired confidence and helped him raise money, have access to carriers, etc... But you need a nuts and bolts operating guy(s) to make a railroad work, and that he was not. Politicians are like professors, they don't have much connection to reality when it comes to actually getting wheels to turn on time.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:44 pm Well Mr. Third Rail, I'm sure glad you stepped forward with your contemporary industry expertise. Thank you for your agreement that the AT is a "shuttle" and that it was necessary to somehow, someway wye the set comprising 53(26).

But if you are a YM at SSY, as your comments around here suggest, I'm not so sure how happy you'd be over directing the movement of equipment over the trackage Mr. Trainguy located. When driving into town on SR-46, I've seen that trackage first hand.

I've seen worse. You do what you need to do. Additionally, I think the angle of the picture is affecting the picture. That being said:

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:44 pm
But I guess it could be done if they broke the set into "workable" sized parts and minimized blocking US-17/SR-46 (French Ave.).

But then, as Mr. Railnut has reminded this Forum on occasion, I was just "a Non-Agreement office boy", so what do I know?

Exactly. If you need to do it piece by piece, you do it piece by piece. Your skills still serve you well, Mr. Norman.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:44 pm Finally , you note that the (outside contractor) Valets might have had to back the autos out of the racks when they were spotted at SFA (SFD, as I recall, was the Station Code for the former ACL station). Guarantee you I'd be less than happy if MY auto was handled in such a manner.

It isn't optimal but consider the options: You arrive almost 12 hours late and

A) you have to wait a few more hours for your car carrier to wye so your vehicle to pull drive out,

or

B) the driver can back your car out of the carrier.

I'm willing to bet your unhappiness would trump your desire to hang out another few hours.

I know mine would!!

That being said, they may try your move today if it comes down to it. They made need to pull the Auto Pain to LKL again. They'll have an engine on each end and cut off.

ThirdRail7 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:21 pm That being said, they may try your move today if it comes down to it. They made need to pull the Auto Pain to LKL again. They'll have an engine on each end and cut off.

OK Mr. Third Rail, apparently CSX has not decided the trackage is not yet cleared for service. or at least for the AT. Therefore, the detour over the Wildwood and Lakeland Subs will continue.

So apparently Amtrak will and their own power to the rear of the Auto-Train, presumably at JAX, reverse direction at Lakeland, and proceed backwards to SFA, thence enter the station "business as usual".

As you noted earlier in the topic, CSX would have wanted "king's ransom" to provide freight engines and crew ("you Amtrak Passenger Engineers are not qualified on our engines"), and I guess only a CSX Pilot is needed to have Amtrak PE's operate over the Foreign Subs.

Mr. SLCHUB, possibly you have been affected by this detour. I'm sure Mr. Third Rail will respect your comments; guarantee you this "Non-Agreement office boy" will.

The Northbound Auto Train that left Sanford Sat. Mar. 28 2 Hours, 20 minutes late, and the Southbound version that arrived almost on time Sun. Mar. 29, both transmitted speeds, locations, and other information on their regular routes in Florida:
https://asm.transitdocs.com/train/2020/3/28/53
https://asm.transitdocs.com/train/2020/3/28/52