Amtrak ACS-64 Sprinter Discussion

frequentflyer wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:30 pmSo are the Sprinters doing the same 2 or 3 roundtrip cycles as the AEM7s?

Yes but the technology inside the box is different and more electrically intensive (100% regenerative braking). The software and hardware safeties are also vastly different from the AEM-7 (DC or updated AC).

Again ... No "toaster fires". AEM-7s were kind of "dumb" in a way that many of the engineers here seem to have loved. They would let you push them to the absolute limit and beyond. For those who knew what they could get away with I would imagine it was great.

Number of ACS-64s lost or disabled by electrical fires to date: 0

They might have a bad record on failure while underway but they do not have "Phoenix Syndrome".

(correct me if I'm wrong ... )

I'm not sure where we are getting the idea European Locomotive have less intensive cycles than Amtrak Electrics on the NEC. Sure the RC4's are on a low use cycle, theyre 30 -40 years old. But the Vectrons would be on a similar cycle to The ASC64's.

Speed limits for regional trains appears to be around 160 KPH which would be 100 MPH. Not sure what the limit is for Eurocity or Intercity trains but it's definitely not "HSR".

Mostly 200Kmh /125 mph. some 225 /140mph , but they would be mostly EMU . up to 23 hour per day diagram , or duty cycles.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:13 pm Speed limits for regional trains appears to be around 160 KPH which would be 100 MPH. Not sure what the limit is for Eurocity or Intercity trains but it's definitely not "HSR".

Depend on the location. In the Netherlands, most IC's driving on 140/160 KPH(200 KPH is planned). But when the trains drive in to Gemany, the speeds go 230/250 KPH. Trains in Belgium drives on each route a minimal of 160 KPH and some lines 200KPH. France is 160 KPH for IC's and 300 for high speed etc. etc.

So ironically enough Amtrak's regional services often operate faster than the Europeans. Imagine that.

Environmental factors have influence over duty cycle as well. In aircraft, hot and high is a critical change to specs. We've seen clear evidence that certain kinds of snow can screw up traction motors on diesels and electrics in short order, and it's no mystery that our track, even on NEC, is nowhere near as good as European standards. I can sleep in Europe like a baby, not so much on Amtrak.

EMD popularized the prime mover wired to traction motors in response to the concern of rough track jolting the mechanical transmission to the engine. The motor leads do not transmit shock, while the driveshaft did. This was all figured out in the very early days of doodlebugs, way before mainline diesels.

Finally, duty cycle and lifespan calcs can also be influenced by maintenance regimen, especially in relation to German products. Where you could probably run an SD70 until it splodes, the Sprinters are not the same. Germans have a culture of preventative maintenance that we do not. I see it every day in industrial equipment, and I work with Siemens a lot. They follow the rules, and maintenance rules are just as important as traffic laws to them.

So TLDR what is wrong with the Sprinters? I'm not sure but you could probably start to uncover root causes by looking at environment, maintenance regimen, deployment, usage, starts/stops, temperatures, etc...

gokeefe wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:20 pm Again ... No "toaster fires". AEM-7s were kind of "dumb" in a way that many of the engineers here seem to have loved. They would let you push them to the absolute limit and beyond. For those who knew what they could get away with I would imagine it was great.

Number of ACS-64s lost or disabled by electrical fires to date: 0

They might have a bad record on failure while underway but they do not have "Phoenix Syndrome".

(correct me if I'm wrong ... )

Um....you're wrong. As a matter of fact, it was brought up quite some time ago. Indeed, an appropriate nickname popped up.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:54 pm
I would also note that as of yet we have never heard a complaint of "they can't pull" or

Ahem.. I think it has been mentioned and since the link in the post is dead, here is the rained soaked reference

gokeefe wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:54 pm "dumps the air for no good reason"

Your definition of good reason may differ from mine but you may want to check the last paragraph of this post.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:54 pm or "derailed when it shouldn't have". HHP-8 and E-60 both had some of those issues as I recall from previous discussions.

Well, the ACSs haven't done this but I don't recall the HHP-8s "derailing when it shouldn't have" either.

Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:49 am So TLDR what is wrong with the Sprinters? I'm not sure but you could probably start to uncover root causes by looking at environment, maintenance regimen, deployment, usage, starts/stops, temperatures, etc...

They are heavily deployed. An engine arriving Washington from New Haven and immediately turning to a train that is departing for Boston is having a long day.

Correction(s) appreciated!

Would it be fair to say that none have been disabled by electrical fires the way the AEM-7s were?

I believe the AEM7s that caught fire were from thyristor oil leaks on the older DCs but A.M can probably shed more light on that. The only problem I remember the Remans having was over heating on hot days to the point where they added a switch to keep the blowers running on high, I don’t recall any catching fire. Right now I’ve seen numerous issues knock out an ACS whether it be software or hardware, the Bulchotz fault is still my favorite to see pop up on the screen from time to time.

bulchotz ?

east point wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:24 am bulchotz ?

Possible transformer failure warning.

east point wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:24 am bulchotz ?

Happends when the transformer is going to fail. Mostly related to low oil reservoir.

So will the ACS-64s now officially end up with the same fate as the HHP-8s (I.e. replaced as soon as possible)? Or are Amtrak stuck with them "for ever"?

The HHP8s were different because they were a small fleet. Amtrak went all in on the ACS so they are going to be here for the long haul.