D&H South End Sale to NS - APPROVED 5/15/15

oibu wrote:^Have things already deteriorated such that it is no longer a mostly-50mph railroad currently?

Under CP for at least the last 10 years, D&H max authorized speed for freight has been 40mph. I can remember in the good old days of the '60s that D&H freights ran on the A&S line at 50-60mph passing us as we drove along rte 7.

Well, under CP prior to that it was pretty much all 50- in the 90s, early 2000s, etc. and I would certainly say it was still mostly 50 in at least the 2005-2007 timeframe, they were still moving along at that time (aside from flood-induced slow orders and such). Frankly when I've been out watching the D&H in more recent times (which admittedly has been minimal, since it's been mostly just been NS trains anyway) all NS anyway), I've not noticed any major difference in speeds one way or the other, perhaps a few mor slow orders than the "good old days" is about all, and south of BInghamton as of two winters ago, 50 mph (or so) running was still very clearly in evidence. Perhaps it's dropped to 40 in many places, but if so that's a development of much less than 10 years ago I"m quite sure. Just was surprised to hear what sounded like something to the effect of the DH was getting to be in rough shape, which would be news to me (although under the EHH regime it wouldn''t surprise me, either- and even aside from that, I can also see not rigorously maintaining to 50 MPH for the small amount of traffic still running now).

A current employee would have to comment but we were doing 50 in spots on the D&H up to 2007 and I'm fairly sure it's still out there.

If you read the STB filing NS says flat out they do not for see major upgrades right away but will benefit from what they consider better maintenance. I would expect trouble areas to be fixed permanently and overall transit time improved but nothing as drastic as bumping up an entire Class system wide. The sidings need a lot of work - CP has let those go.

D&H track and infrastructure have been in pretty decent shape over the past decade as there have been CWR installation, tie replacements, rail grinding, signal replacements. I believe that CP made a decision way before EHH arrived to keep freight MAS at 40mph as a compromise between moving time sensitive freight for NS while optimizing $ needed for maintaining infrastructure to a state of good repair. Given the D&H is single tracked with often widely spaced controlled sidings (eg, 25+/- miles) and 8-10 daily movements of often very long freights over a hilly profile, a difference in MAS between 40mph and 50mph wouldn't consistently yield shorter trip times given trains frequently find themselves parked in sidings waiting many minutes for one or two opposing movements.

Here are MAS tables copied from the CP NEUS employee timetable of July 1, 2005 that list MAS for freight for the D&H South:

Freight and Passenger Maximum Speed Table
Unless otherwise restricted:

Freight Mainline:
CPF 467-Interlocking Limits 25mph
CPF 467 to 470.0 30mph
470.0 to CPF 475 40mph
CPF 475 to CPF477 40mph
CPF 477 to CPF 480 40mph
CPF 480 to 486.1 30mph
CPF 480 to CPF 483 CSE 25mph
CPF 481 to CPF 483 CSW 25mph
486.1 to CPF 499 40mph
CPF 499 to CPF 503 35mph
CPF 503-Interlocking Limits 30mph
CPF 503 to 520.2 40mph
520.2 to 520.5 35mph
520.5 to CPF 526 40mph
CPF 526 to CPF 528 40mph
CPF 528 to CPF 554 40mph
CPF 554 to CPF 557 40mph
CPF 557 to 562.7 40mph
562.7 to 563.0 25mph
563.0 to CPF 587 40mph
CPF 587 to CPF 590 40mph
CPF 590 to CPF 611 35mph
CPF 611 to EMT (612.75) 35mph

Sunbury Sub:
Binghamton Container to CPF 648 40mph
CPF 648 to CPF 650 40mph
CPF 650 to 655.3 40mph
655.3 to 656.0 25mph
656.0 to CPF 659 40mph
CPF 659 to CPF 661 40mph
CPF 661 to 663.0 40mph
663.0 to 670.8 35mph
670.8 to CPF 672 20mph
CPF 672 CPF 673 20mph
CPF 673 to Carbon 20mph
Carbon to CPF 679 30mph
CPF 679 (Diverging Route) 10mph
CPF 679 to 681.3 30mph
681.3 to 693.3 25mph
693.3 to 705.3 40mph
705.3 to 706.1 35mph
706.1 to CPF 714 40mph
CPF 714 to CPF 716 40mph
CPF 716 to 716.6 40mph
716.6 to 716.7 35mph
716.7 to 749.0 40mph
749.0 to 749.4 35mph
749.4 to 750.01 35mph
750.01 to 751.0 20mph
751.0 to Sunbury 10mph
Sunbury to CP Kase 10mph

Here is a URL to the timetable (see MAS tables on pages 15 (Freight Mainline Mohawk Yd to Binghamton) and 23 (Sunbury Sub Binghamton Yard to junction with NS at CP-Kase):
https://xa.yimg.com/df/dandh/CP+NEUS+Ti ... e=download

I would be interested to see if this was the case in the Timetable prior to that one, I think it was 2000 (the one with Yankee stadium on the front).

Perhaps my memory is that bad but I could have sworn there was 50 mph running.

johnpbarlow wrote: Here is a URL to the timetable (see MAS tables on pages 15 (Freight Mainline Mohawk Yd to Binghamton) and 23 (Sunbury Sub Binghamton Yard to junction with NS at CP-Kase):
https://xa.yimg.com/df/dandh/CP+NEUS+Ti ... e=download

Is there an updated link for the timetable? This link isn't working for me.

SteelRail wrote:

johnpbarlow wrote: Here is a URL to the timetable (see MAS tables on pages 15 (Freight Mainline Mohawk Yd to Binghamton) and 23 (Sunbury Sub Binghamton Yard to junction with NS at CP-Kase):
https://xa.yimg.com/df/dandh/CP+NEUS+Ti ... e=download

Is there an updated link for the timetable? This link isn't working for me.

Access to the link I provided may require membership (free) in the "dandh" Yahoo forum: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dan ... s/messages

Here's a 2007 CP NEUS TT .PDF I found via Google that is downloadable without any membership: http://palter.org/~brotzman/Misc/CP_Nor ... 1-2007.pdf

Net: MAS for D&H South lines in 2007 was no higher than 40mph.

Currently MAS is 40mph. Some spots could easily handle 50, other spots not so much...

Here's the 50 I was talking about. I think if someone opened a 2000 NEUS they would find it still in many places.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRe9C8yw2jI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Acquisition approved:

http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readin ... /44295.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who is this CNJ Rail/Riffin guy? He pops up in there a lot asking for some pretty absurd things.

C.J.V.

chrisnewhaven wrote:Acquisition approved:

http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readin ... /44295.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who is this CNJ Rail/Riffin guy? He pops up in there a lot asking for some pretty absurd things.

C.J.V.

Riffin is a well-known grifter and ex-con. Punch up the name in the board search field for a good laugh on some of his other misadventures in frivolous legal filings.

chrisnewhaven wrote:Acquisition approved:

http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readin ... /44295.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wonder what improvements if any NS plans to make on the line after June 14th?

In the application they said the line is in good shape and they do not plan immediate substantial improvements. There aren't any 10s at all currently on the section they are buying any only 3 25 mph restrictions.

My guess is when they begin improvements they will bring the controlled sidings up to 25 and then bring the MAS up to 50 mph on the main where appropriate like it used to be.

newpylong wrote:In the application they said the line is in good shape and they do not plan immediate substantial improvements. There aren't any 10s at all currently on the section they are buying any only 3 25 mph restrictions.

My guess is when they begin improvements they will bring the controlled sidings up to 25 and then bring the MAS up to 50 mph on the main where appropriate like it used to be.

50? So it's Class 4, not Class 3? (Or rather...not maximal-speed Class 4, but greater than max Class 3 speed.)

CPF363 wrote:

chrisnewhaven wrote:Acquisition approved:

http://www.stb.dot.gov/decisions/readin ... /44295.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wonder what improvements if any NS plans to make on the line after June 14th?

My guess: 80 mph, welded rail, concrete tie, double-track all the way.