Auto racks on CNJ North of Allentown

I was heading to the First Frost Train Meet in Allentown on Sunday morning. As I passed over the former CNJ on 22 I saw an auto rack train sitting there. How often does this train run? Is it a pre-dawn train ? I have been trying for years to get something on the former CNJ from Catasaqua to Lehighton.I know NS runs a local and I believe one of the days it goes out is Friday. I saw it twice with no camera with me to get it with.

The train you seen was 13T and it has auto's most days. That part of the Lehigh Line west of Allentown has most of its traffic at night. As you said the only daylight job is the H-66 or H74 which run daily except Sat. If 13T is running late you may have a chance of getting something in the early morning.

Does 12T come from the Southern Tier line via CP (former DL&W) from Binghamton to Scranton?

Do they have a northbound counterpart?

lvrr325 wrote:Does 12T come from the Southern Tier line via CP (former DL&W) from Binghamton to Scranton?

Yep, somewhere around DuPont the old DL&W connects to the Lehigh Line and 12T/13T runs from there
to Binghamton.

CNJ Fan 4evr wrote:Do they have a northbound counterpart?

Yes, 13T is the eastbound and 12T is the westbound counterpart.

Charlie

charlie6017 wrote:
Yep, somewhere around DuPont the old DL&W connects to the Lehigh Line and 12T/13T runs from there
to Binghamton....
Charlie

In Dupont the Lehigh Line connects to the D&H for a few miles, and then there's a short section of the former CNJ before it connects to the former DLW just south of Scranton at Taylor. And to add to the confusion, I think the D&H bought out that piece of the CNJ, and the DLW from Taylor to Binghamton, so now it is all D&H from Dupont to Binghamton. JS

pumpers wrote:

charlie6017 wrote:
Yep, somewhere around DuPont the old DL&W connects to the Lehigh Line and 12T/13T runs from there
to Binghamton....
Charlie

In Dupont the Lehigh Line connects to the D&H for a few miles, and then there's a short section of the former CNJ before it connects to the former DLW just south of Scranton at Taylor. And to add to the confusion, I think the D&H bought out that piece of the CNJ, and the DLW from Taylor to Binghamton, so now it is all D&H from Dupont to Binghamton. JS

Thank you JS, I wasn't completely sure how that tied together and that cleared it up for me.

Greatly appreciated!

Charlie

CNJ had trackage rights over D&H berween Hudson yard on the north side of Wilkes-Barre (I believe the neighborhood was known as Miners' Mills at one time) and Minooka Junction a few miles south of Taylor. The operation was contolled from a CTC panel in the Hudson yard office. To complicate things, a connection was effected near Avoca between the D&H-CNJ operation and Lehight Valley's Mountain Cutoff (Gracedale / Mountaintop to Coxton Yard in Pittston) early in 1973, and a "new " run-through service -- two freights designated NE-84 and NE-87 -- instituted between Maine Central's Rigby Yard in Portland and Potomac Yard In Alexandria, VA.

The service used the former CNJ to Allentown, and may have also at one time have had the option of using LV on the west bank of the Lehigh, which was still intact at the time. The former PRR Wilkes-Barre line was definitely not used, and I'm not sure how the trains negotiated Philadelphia -- whether via Reading's Blandon Low Grade through its namesake city, or the now abandoned Bethlehem Branch, which was used for extremely heavy import iron ore moves to Bethlehem in the Sixties.

Conrail brought an end to the former Allentown-Scranton-Buffalo gateway via the CNJ and E-L (nee Dl&W), but the superbly-engineered and now-superfluous Lackawanna Cutoff offered a far easier access to points north than the former D&H/Erie operation via Carbondale and Ararart Mountain, so a deal was struck and the routing shifted in early 1985, This route alaso had the advantage of direct access to Binghamton, whereas the "old" D&H forked into two lines, one to "Bingo" and the other to Wilkes-Barre at Nineveh, NY. The one drawback in the new scheme of things is the neeed for a reverse move at Binghamton, since the former D&H to Oneonta and Albany and the former DL&W both enter Binghamton Yard from the east.

2nd trick op wrote:CNJ had trackage rights over D&H berween Hudson yard on the north side of Wilkes-Barre (I believe the neighborhood was known as Miners' Mills at one time) and Minooka Junction a few miles south of Taylor. The operation was contolled from a CTC panel in the Hudson yard office. To complicate things, a connection was effected near Avoca between the D&H-CNJ operation and Lehight Valley's Mountain Cutoff (Gracedale / Mountaintop to Coxton Yard in Pittston) early in 1973, and a "new " run-through service -- two freights designated NE-84 and NE-87 -- instituted between Maine Central's Rigby Yard in Portland and Potomac Yard In Alexandria, VA.

The service used the former CNJ to Allentown, and may have also at one time have had the option of using LV on the west bank of the Lehigh, which was still intact at the time. The former PRR Wilkes-Barre line was definitely not used, and I'm not sure how the trains negotiated Philadelphia -- whether via Reading's Blandon Low Grade through its namesake city, or the now abandoned Bethlehem Branch, which was used for extremely heavy import iron ore moves to Bethlehem in the Sixties.

I did a quick Google on NE-84. First came a fascinating Trains mag reprint (I think) about an inspection train for Conrail preparations along the NE-84 route in 1974. http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/PDF ... phabet.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then something from a Reading historical site, with times of the NE-84 schedule, and showing the Reading RR route from Philadelphia to Reading to Allentown. http://www.readingmodeler.com/index.php ... rain-ne-84" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Note "Eastside" in the schedule was the B&O yard in Philly, and Park junction is the B&O /Reading Juction just north of downtown Philly.

A lot of the route (Allentown to New England) is still serving as a regular freight through connection - not sure if it has a single number though. The Dupont to Mechanicville (now D&H, using part of the DLW to Binghamton and not the old D&H north of Scranton over Ararat Mountain, as described in the article and just above) and then the B&M to New England (now Pan Am, or Pan AM/Norfolk Southern Joint venture?) is still going strong, along with Allentown -Dupont on the ex LV and CNJ of course. JS

IIRC the D&H bought part of Taylor yard from Conrail that was originally CNJ. The former PRR was granted to them as part of the merger. They bought the former DL&W main in 1982, and today it's possible to continue north without a runaround move in Binghamton.

The CNJ abandoned all track in Pennsylvania in 1972; the LV became designated operator for a lot of it, although I'm not sure they became outright owner. Under the LV, portions of the LV main were kept as escape routes and detour routes, but eventualy Conrail did away with them.

I've seen photos of double-stacks in the Lehigh River valley, so apparently the clearances are good on that line today.

CP 258/259 also have autos and stacks on that route on occasion.

Couple of clarification points.

The D&H only purchased the ex-DL&W Taylor yard and the lead from Minooka Jct to Taylor from Conrail. The CNJ trackage (originally the Wilkes-Barre and Scranton RR built and owned by the Lehigh Coal and Navigation Company - it was leased to the CNJ) was closer to the Lackawanna River and pretty much torn up in the 1970's.

The trackage between Minooka Jct and Hudson Yard originally consisted of three tracks, two owned by the D&H and one operated by the CNJ (Wilkes Barre and Scranton RR). All of the trackage operated by the CNJ in Pennsylvania (Wilkes-Barre and Scranton, the Tresckow RR and the Lehigh and Susquehanna RR) was actually owned by the LC&N and operated under lease with the exception of the ex-Lehigh and New England Railroad trackage which had been purchased outright by the CNJ in the 1960's. The CNJ used bankruptcy protection to get out of their lease of the WIlkes-Barre and Scranton RR and the Lehigh and Susquehanna RR but kept operating the Lehigh and New England Railway until almost 1975.

Because of the complexity of traffic, Hudson Yard was actually home to dispatchers who were responsible for the trackage from Hudson to Carbondale. The rest of the D&H was dispatched from Albany. This all changed when Hudson Yard was closed and traffic was shifted to the ex DL&W line between Scranton and Binghamton.

After the CNJ pullout, the Lehigh Valley assumed responsibility of the lease of the Lehigh and Susquehanna RR. Not sure if the LV ever assumed any responsibility for the Wilkse-Barre and Scranton RR, their would be really no need for them to do so. Ultimately Conrail assumed the lease on its startup but negotiated a flat purchase price of the L&S in 1978 and tore up the ex-CNJ from Ashley to Hudson and Ashley to Laurel Run around 1981.

NE-84 and NE-87 actually predated the connection at Dupont Jct (near Avoca), trains from the D&H would originally from their home rails to Wilkes-Barre Yard, hand off their trains to the LV and the LV would proceed south to Franklin Jct where the train would switch to CNJ rails and proceed up the "back track" from Ashley to Penobscot Yard (Mountaintop) and then to Lehighton. Eventually mine fires caused trackage in Georgetown to become very unstable forcing the LV to have to bring trains north via the old LV passenger main to Coxton where the trains were then directed south along the LV Mountain Cutoff to Laurel Run. The opening of the connection at Dupont Jct. shaved almost 24 hours of transit times.

The LV and the D&H largely used the LV line on the western side of the Lehigh River until 1980 or so to avoid congestion in Allentown Yard. Traffic was handed off to the Reading in Allentown where it was routed to Philladelphia via Blandon. The D&H seriously pursued purchasing the ex-LV line from Conrail including a proposal to purchase the ex-Reading Cautasauqua and Fogelsville branch in order to bypass Allentown altogether. Conrail being Conrail, refused to sell the line and ultimately ripped up the rails south of Lehighton including the Cautasaqua connection to the C&F.

The D&H purchased the ex DL&W line from Scranton to Binghamton, not the Lackawanna Cutoff. The Lackawanna Cutoff started at Slateford Jct near Portland and continued across NJ. The traffic shift from the original D&H Scranton trackage to the ex-DL&W line to Binghamton happened in 1982 not 1985.

Interesting about the mine fires being one of the factors leading to the demise of the CNJ backtrack. Before around 1965, LV still had their own route to Wilkes Barre, going around the mountain the other way. Did NE84/87 exist back then, and perhaps use to LV track to get to Wilkes Barre?
Details:

Andyt293 wrote:The D&H only purchased the ex-DL&W Taylor yard and the lead from Minooka Jct to Taylor from Conrail. The CNJ trackage (originally the Wilkes-Barre and Scranton RR built and owned by the Lehigh Coal and Navigation Company - it was leased to the CNJ) was closer to the Lackawanna River and pretty much torn up in the 1970's.

I think the bridge over the river at Minooka was owned by the CNJ. That is the short stretch of the CNJ I was referring to . On the north/west side of the river they then built a connection from the CNJ to the adjacent (uphill) DLW Bloomsburg branch to get to Taylor. There might be 1/2 mile of the CNJ before the tie-in to the Bloom. Of course it was Conrail before D&H got it.

Andyt293 wrote: The trackage between Minooka Jct and Hudson Yard originally consisted of three tracks, two owned by the D&H and one operated by the CNJ (Wilkes Barre and Scranton RR).

From what I have seen, the 3rd track (CNJ) only went a short distance, like a mile or two, north of Hudson. It ended at Union Junction where the CNJ Everhart branch tied in, just south of Laflin. North of there to Minooka Junction was just the 2 D&H tracks. Between Hudson and Union junction I think I read once they shared directional running between the CNJ and the D&H. Gingerb describes it all http://gingerb.com/cnj_d&h_track.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
JS

Pretty sure NE-87 and NE-84 came into existence around the same time or shortly after CNJ-LV consolidation agreement. I don't know for sure, but I would speculate that the LV asked for the CNJ Backtrack to be included with such trains in mind. I believe Mike Bednar's LV in Color-6 book has pictures of the track deterioration. There are also pictures of the the D&H/CNJ connection in Hudson taken in the fall of 1972 after the CNJ pulled out with the tracks rusty and overgrown with weeds yet with the interlocking signals still lit.

Here is a picture taken in Wilkes-Barre only four years after the CNJ pulled out of Pennsylvania. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... =9#remarks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/pdf/BP ... heet_1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; This is a 1959 map of Luzerne County that shows both the original LV Mainline through Sugar Notch and the CNJ Everhart Branch.

You are correct and I was wrong about the three tracks north of Union Jct. Track from Minooka Jct to the CNJ connection with the O&W near Lackawanna Avenue was owned by the LC&N and leased to the CNJ. W. Julian Parton's book "Death of a Great Company" make several mentions about the lease of the L&S and the Wilkes-Barre and Scranton RR's.

Lots of interesting things in those days. Not that I paid any attention to it at the time. And in the spirit of full disclosure, I may have had a senior moment when I referred to directional running shared between the CNJ and D&H between Hudson and Union Junction. JS