Septa's Doomsday Budget 2013-2023

25Hz wrote:Again, if they have a problem with SEPTA, the solution is to come up with a system that works and doesnt shut down, but expands and increases service so riders and revenue increase.

Their criticism is mostly about CTD buses, and I suspect nothing short of the buses being self-supporting would satisfy them. If Harrisburg won't give money, it'll have to come from the local area. Maybe a rise in the city's sales tax. Maybe the DRPA can stop funding football fields and give some of the money to transportation.

loufah wrote:

25Hz wrote:Again, if they have a problem with SEPTA, the solution is to come up with a system that works and doesnt shut down, but expands and increases service so riders and revenue increase.

Their criticism is mostly about CTD buses, and I suspect nothing short of the buses being self-supporting would satisfy them. If Harrisburg won't give money, it'll have to come from the local area. Maybe a rise in the city's sales tax. Maybe the DRPA can stop funding football fields and give some of the money to transportation.

But the irony is that this area generates more money through taxes and such for the state of Pennsylvania than we actually get back to invest in local projects. If we just said that "hey, we'll keep all the money we raise in this region while you keep all the money you raise in your area", we would still come out on top...and probably be better for it provided out local legislators don't squander it on something.

Well, i just hope the guv realizes that he has no chance of re-election and does the right thing regardless. We need the broken SEPTA as it is now till the needed improvements are made.

Clearfield wrote:I'm putting the facts where my mouth is, and you don't have the credentials to call me out on any carpet.

I was referring to the geography of Killion's, Metcalfe's and Saccone's districts, not the legislators' rhetoric, which I didn't read and have little interest in reading.

Metcalfe's and Saccone's districts look more rural on Google than Killion's imo.

Go to http://www.legis.state.pa.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, click on county under Who's My Legislator, then click a county. The legislator's page comes up, and towards the bottom is a map of the district. Click satellite on the map and you'll see a satellite map of the district and the development (or lack thereof) within.


motor

For the past three hours i just been on google searching up articles about this PA Transit bill. And some articles are claiming within the past five days that the bill maybe signed with a great chance. So my question is this $2.5 Billion how would this stuff be split ?. Anyone care to help me understand . From my understanding SEPTA would obviously be the biggest transit authority getting the money ? or what. And the figure they would get would it continue for 10 years. ?

I just thought about either they could get $500,000,000 ( i seen this on their youtube channel) and they said they had shovel ready projects. But $500 Million over a 10 year period would put them on target to overhaul and bring the system up to date @ $5 Billion just shy of $1 Billion of 6 that they need in total over a 10 year period. And would lets just say 500 Million would that be in additional money they already receive from the state ?

This has really been picking at my brain the whole time. And im just wondering would $1.7 Billion a year be enough to fix the other transportation related issues for the state ?. And at the same time SEPTA SHARES the roads/highways/and bridges that are in dire need of repair also.

sammy2009 wrote:For the past three hours i just been on google searching up articles about this PA Transit bill. And some articles are claiming within the past five days that the bill maybe signed with a great chance. So my question is this $2.5 Billion how would this stuff be split ?. Anyone care to help me understand . From my understanding SEPTA would obviously be the biggest transit authority getting the money ? or what. And the figure they would get would it continue for 10 years. ?

I just thought about either they could get $500,000,000 ( i seen this on their youtube channel) and they said they had shovel ready projects. But $500 Million over a 10 year period would put them on target to overhaul and bring the system up to date @ $5 Billion just shy of $1 Billion of 6 that they need in total over a 10 year period. And would lets just say 500 Million would that be in additional money they already receive from the state ?

This has really been picking at my brain the whole time. And im just wondering would $1.7 Billion a year be enough to fix the other transportation related issues for the state ?. And at the same time SEPTA SHARES the roads/highways/and bridges that are in dire need of repair also.

Don't forget that the amount of money needed for state of good repair projects increases every year as long as the need isn't met. Transit infrastructure is capital-intensive and everything needs some work nearly every year.

Want happens to your car if you defer all of the maintenance? One day, you're walkin'

Clearfield wrote:

sammy2009 wrote:For the past three hours i just been on google searching up articles about this PA Transit bill. And some articles are claiming within the past five days that the bill maybe signed with a great chance. So my question is this $2.5 Billion how would this stuff be split ?. Anyone care to help me understand . From my understanding SEPTA would obviously be the biggest transit authority getting the money ? or what. And the figure they would get would it continue for 10 years. ?

I just thought about either they could get $500,000,000 ( i seen this on their youtube channel) and they said they had shovel ready projects. But $500 Million over a 10 year period would put them on target to overhaul and bring the system up to date @ $5 Billion just shy of $1 Billion of 6 that they need in total over a 10 year period. And would lets just say 500 Million would that be in additional money they already receive from the state ?

This has really been picking at my brain the whole time. And im just wondering would $1.7 Billion a year be enough to fix the other transportation related issues for the state ?. And at the same time SEPTA SHARES the roads/highways/and bridges that are in dire need of repair also.

Don't forget that the amount of money needed for state of good repair projects increases every year as long as the need isn't met. Transit infrastructure is capital-intensive and everything needs some work nearly every year.

Want happens to your car if you defer all of the maintenance? One day, you're walkin'

You are so right. Now I dont know how many shovel ready projects they have. I'll have to proably check the FY-2014 budget. But upkeep and overhauls is a big chunk ofcoursr. I'm sure they would cut that $500 Million up. But is that the amount that SEPTA WOULD GET OUT THE 2.5. Just want the confirmation ?

How much does SEPTA want to avert "doomsday"?

bikentransit wrote:How much does SEPTA want to avert "doomsday"?

You are missing the point.

SEPTA is not a 'thing' and doesn't get to vote for President, Senator, Representative, or Mayor

SEPTA is about 9,000 employees, many of whom would lose their jobs.

SEPTA is how people get to work.

How much do YOU want to avert doomsday, and what are YOU going to do to help avert it?

Way to dodge the question. How much money is SEPTA asking for to avert doomsday? Or is there really no number? Just give us more?
If you or they can't come up with a number, maybe we really do need to scrap the thing and start over.

bikentransit wrote:How much does SEPTA want to avert "doomsday"?

Casey said $650 million/year for 10 years to avert the cutbacks. He didn't say what would happen if they get $649 million.

$400M/year is $4B over ten years, which is the doomsday plan horizon.

From Jeff Kneuppel's presentation slides on unfunded capital needs to the SEPTA board:

Bridges and tunnels round to $1.3B
Power is another $0.6B
Shops are another $0.3B
Track is another $0.7B

That gets us to $2.9B. We still haven't bought vehicles.

Current budgeting for replacement LRVs is $1.0B and the Silverliner VIs are $1.4B. One of those is more urgent and fits in the budget presented. Goodbye, Silverliner VIs.

That leaves $100M over 10 years for overruns, rounding errors, business cycle risk, PTC-style federal mandates, and Everything Else. If that money actually exists, you might be able to split that 50/50 between a new electric loco fleet, and overhauls of the bombers, which means you can keep the push-pulls running and providing meager but adequate service on your four-line Regional Rail system, but you still lose the other nine lines when the Silverliner IVs retire.

Oh, right, and there are no improvements, no expansions.

Anybody want to check my math here?

There's been rumors that Democrats in the House are going wobbly on SB1 because they expect Turzai to pull a fast one, or because they think they can get a better deal done in 2015. SEPTA cannot wait for 2015. If you are calling your state Rep, do so regardless of their party affiliation, and insist that half a loaf now is better than no loaf for eighteen months.

CComMack wrote:$400M/year is $4B over ten years, which is the doomsday plan horizon.

From Jeff Kneuppel's presentation slides on unfunded capital needs to the SEPTA board:

Bridges and tunnels round to $1.3B
Power is another $0.6B
Shops are another $0.3B
Track is another $0.7B

That gets us to $2.9B. We still haven't bought vehicles.

Current budgeting for replacement LRVs is $1.0B and the Silverliner VIs are $1.4B. One of those is more urgent and fits in the budget presented. Goodbye, Silverliner VIs.

That leaves $100M over 10 years for overruns, rounding errors, business cycle risk, PTC-style federal mandates, and Everything Else. If that money actually exists, you might be able to split that 50/50 between a new electric loco fleet, and overhauls of the bombers, which means you can keep the push-pulls running and providing meager but adequate service on your four-line Regional Rail system, but you still lose the other nine lines when the Silverliner IVs retire.

Oh, right, and there are no improvements, no expansions.

Anybody want to check my math here?

There's been rumors that Democrats in the House are going wobbly on SB1 because they expect Turzai to pull a fast one, or because they think they can get a better deal done in 2015. SEPTA cannot wait for 2015. If you are calling your state Rep, do so regardless of their party affiliation, and insist that half a loaf now is better than no loaf for eighteen months.

link for whatever he said: http://www.keystonepolitics.com/2013/09 ... l-sb1-now/

The bridges and tunnels are one of the most that need to be fix . But I have a feeling will find some way to split it all up. And fix the most damaged and needy bridges FIRST . Which does make sense not sure how many. Cant they pay for everything overtime ? Isn't that how they pay vechiles and ceartin projects ?

CComMack wrote:Anybody want to check my math here?

I believe that the total asked for was if they received it in one lump sum today.

Since the projects would be staged over a number of years, don't forget to factor in inflation and the continued deterioration between now and the time each project is bid.

So far as the local legislators go, I believe that some of them from the suburban counties are not on board with funding transportation as a responsibility of government.