SEPTA to run the Keystones?

Clearfield wrote:

beanbag wrote:Bit off topic but Clearfield can you please keep me informed on the Pennsylvanian situation? A friend of mine uses that train to get to his school and I would like to give him a heads up if it gets cancelled.

Sure. It's not really off topic. There will be plenty of chatter on here as we get closer to the October cutoff date.

Thank you. I didnt want to drag it off topic if it was, now i know. Ill definitely be checking in here come October.

Questions to answer if SEPTA bid on the Keystones:
-What equipment would be necessary? Of that, what do they have, and what needs to be done to it (ACSES, bathrooms, etc.)
-Would they be able to access the full NYP-HAR segment, or would SEPTA be restricted to PHL-HAR (edited)? If SEPTA was so restricted, would Amtrak still provide NYP-PHL-HAR service on anything besides the Pennsylvanian?
-Does SEPTA need additional crews to handle this schedule, and how many? Likewise for servicing points and crew, dispatchers, ticket agents...?

From my perspective, while SEPTA provides uninspired service in its current area, it doesn't seem incapable of running express or semi-express service to Harrisburg. I don't have an opinion on whether they are a better choice than Amtrak, though Amtrak has certainly demonstrated more comfortable service.

one of the reasons septa is cheaper is they dont have bathrooms which are expensive to maintain and clean. they also lack wifi and red cap service. on the keystone elderly patrons find help but they pay more. on septa they pay $1 and get no help. as far as i can tell this is a dvarp idea to make a profit from penndot. doubt theyd get any of the revenue dollars. perhaps dvarp should work with penndot to improve the schedule and reduce nonpaid hours
id be surprised if the majority of keystone riders support it. most of the cost recovery problems relate to penndots poor schedule and the fact only one service is run out of philly but we should rememner cost recovery is fairly high as it is on the pennsylvanian. the pennsylvanian is the one at risk. its major problem is its overpriced for the speed

ex Budd man wrote:The Bombers would be the equipment of choice for these runs. Each cab car has a toilet (some have the innards removed), they sit in the yards all day long, and crews lay over during the middle of the day. Sounds doable to me. We already loan them to Amtrak for the holiday rush.

Hate to tell you, but check the cab car that was rehabbed that's floating around. The bathroom has been removed and seats installed and this will be done to all cab cars.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:

ex Budd man wrote:The Bombers would be the equipment of choice for these runs. Each cab car has a toilet (some have the innards removed), they sit in the yards all day long, and crews lay over during the middle of the day. Sounds doable to me. We already loan them to Amtrak for the holiday rush.

Hate to tell you, but check the cab car that was rehabbed that's floating around. The bathroom has been removed and seats installed and this will be done to all cab cars.

Maybe Amtrak would lend some amfleets with bathrooms to septa

zebrasepta wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:

ex Budd man wrote:The Bombers would be the equipment of choice for these runs. Each cab car has a toilet (some have the innards removed), they sit in the yards all day long, and crews lay over during the middle of the day. Sounds doable to me. We already loan them to Amtrak for the holiday rush.

Hate to tell you, but check the cab car that was rehabbed that's floating around. The bathroom has been removed and seats installed and this will be done to all cab cars.

Maybe Amtrak would lend some amfleets with bathrooms to septa

"lend" would not be the appropriate word

According to the Wikipedia article on SEPTA Regional Rail, I count 12 cabs and 41 trailers in the fleet. Sure, that would be enough for four ten-car sets and a spare set, and that would be plenty for frequent SEPTA Keystone service. To be honest, I am starting to like the idea of using the Bombers more and more - particularly if it means that SEPTA can take them out of regular Regional Rail service and fill out the entire fleet with Silverliner Vs. It does mean that the Bombers would need bathrooms restored, which would have to be added into the budget prior to bidding on the Keystones.

Notice I didn't say I wanted SEPTA to run the service necessarily. Amtrak still owns the line, Amtrak crews have the qualifications, and Amtrak dispatchers know the line. However, SEPTA has little-used equipment with which Amtrak is familiar, and which is cleared for the entire Northeast Corridor and Keystone Corridor. Perhaps it is time for Pennsylvania to do like North Carolina and direct Amtrak to use state-owned equipment, either cars only or motors as well. (Again, reopen the bathrooms, possibly change the seating to 2+2 if practical, and do anything else necessary to use them in daily intensive service.)

mtuandrew wrote:According to the Wikipedia article on SEPTA Regional Rail, I count 12 cabs and 41 trailers in the fleet. Sure, that would be enough for four ten-car sets and a spare set, and that would be plenty for frequent SEPTA Keystone service. To be honest, I am starting to like the idea of using the Bombers more and more - particularly if it means that SEPTA can take them out of regular Regional Rail service and fill out the entire fleet with Silverliner Vs. It does mean that the Bombers would need bathrooms restored, which would have to be added into the budget prior to bidding on the Keystones.

Funny, because SEPTA is removing the bathroom infrastructure with their bomber rebuilds...

scotty269 wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:According to the Wikipedia article on SEPTA Regional Rail, I count 12 cabs and 41 trailers in the fleet. Sure, that would be enough for four ten-car sets and a spare set, and that would be plenty for frequent SEPTA Keystone service. To be honest, I am starting to like the idea of using the Bombers more and more - particularly if it means that SEPTA can take them out of regular Regional Rail service and fill out the entire fleet with Silverliner Vs. It does mean that the Bombers would need bathrooms restored, which would have to be added into the budget prior to bidding on the Keystones.

Funny, because SEPTA is removing the bathroom infrastructure with their bomber rebuilds...

I already said that further up and no one wants to listen!!! What do I know???

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:

scotty269 wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:According to the Wikipedia article on SEPTA Regional Rail, I count 12 cabs and 41 trailers in the fleet. Sure, that would be enough for four ten-car sets and a spare set, and that would be plenty for frequent SEPTA Keystone service. To be honest, I am starting to like the idea of using the Bombers more and more - particularly if it means that SEPTA can take them out of regular Regional Rail service and fill out the entire fleet with Silverliner Vs. It does mean that the Bombers would need bathrooms restored, which would have to be added into the budget prior to bidding on the Keystones.

Funny, because SEPTA is removing the bathroom infrastructure with their bomber rebuilds...

I already said that further up and no one wants to listen!!! What do I know???

I hear you, I hear you!

I think it has obvious benefits, like putting Pennsylvania firmly in the driver's seat while still leaving Amtrak responsible for problems, totally standardizing the SEPTA fleet, and using the push-pulls for intercity service like they were designed for. This plan probably won't happen though, since it involves Pennsylvania spending money on:
-overhauling the Bombers and adding back at least a few functional bathrooms per set, if not one or two per car
-covering SEPTA's lost capacity with more Silverliners from Rotem
-overhauling the AEMs and ALPs so they don't take a dump in intensive regular service
-converting the seating to 2+2 at some point, though that isn't strictly necessary

mtuandrew wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:

scotty269 wrote:

mtuandrew wrote:According to the Wikipedia article on SEPTA Regional Rail, I count 12 cabs and 41 trailers in the fleet. Sure, that would be enough for four ten-car sets and a spare set, and that would be plenty for frequent SEPTA Keystone service. To be honest, I am starting to like the idea of using the Bombers more and more - particularly if it means that SEPTA can take them out of regular Regional Rail service and fill out the entire fleet with Silverliner Vs. It does mean that the Bombers would need bathrooms restored, which would have to be added into the budget prior to bidding on the Keystones.

Funny, because SEPTA is removing the bathroom infrastructure with their bomber rebuilds...

I already said that further up and no one wants to listen!!! What do I know???

I hear you, I hear you!

I think it has obvious benefits, like putting Pennsylvania firmly in the driver's seat while still leaving Amtrak responsible for problems, totally standardizing the SEPTA fleet, and using the push-pulls for intercity service like they were designed for. This plan probably won't happen though, since it involves Pennsylvania spending money on:
-overhauling the Bombers and adding back at least a few functional bathrooms per set, if not one or two per car
-covering SEPTA's lost capacity with more Silverliners from Rotem
-overhauling the AEMs and ALPs so they don't take a dump in intensive regular service
-converting the seating to 2+2 at some point, though that isn't strictly necessary

Why not just do it right by leasing (or adding on to order for) some bi-levels from NJT with ALP46? NJT could be responsible for maintenance via a contract.

FRN9: Now that's funny. Judging based on the regular SEPTA posters' information and attitudes, I'd be less surprised to see SEPTA and the Commonwealth scrap the entire push-pull fleet and buy a whole fleet of bathroom-equipped Silverliner Vs good for 125 mph and equipped with bathrooms for the Harrisburg run... and that isn't happening either.

the Keystones could use tilting equipment