PAS/PAR System Capacity Management Discussion

gokeefe wrote:I had no idea they had CTC between Oakland and NMJ.

Somewhere I've posted a picture of the first signal. It is adjacent to the Mallard Lane crossing. There is a sign there for "Start of Signal Territory". Yard limits are maybe 1/4 - 1/2 mile east of that point.

Eastbounds blow their horn for Mallard Lane near my camp. Westbounds blow it far enough before Mallard Lane that I can throw on my shoes and run up the hill and get near the tracks just before the engines. BTW - our camp road actually runs within the railroad ROW for a while. My garage and outhouse are 1 foot from the railroad property and 30 feet from the tracks. I've made sure my boys have damn good respect for railroad safety. They occasionally get a few Operation Lifesaver cards tossed down to them when we watch at Mallard Lane.

Trains between Waterville and NMJ proceed on signal indication, so if one sees the lamp at NMJ lit, it could mean there is a movement anywhere between Waterville and NMJ (Bog Rd, Hermon).

CN9634 wrote:Trains between Waterville and NMJ proceed on signal indication, so if one sees the lamp at NMJ lit, it could mean there is a movement anywhere between Waterville and NMJ (Bog Rd, Hermon).

Interesting. So that's CTC, but controlling only one reeeeeally long block.

B&M ETTs of the 1970s contained a similar Special Instruction about harmonic rocking - freights were to be operated either at or below 10 MPH, or greater than 20 MPH IIRC.

gokeefe wrote:

CN9634 wrote:Trains between Waterville and NMJ proceed on signal indication, so if one sees the lamp at NMJ lit, it could mean there is a movement anywhere between Waterville and NMJ (Bog Rd, Hermon).

Interesting. So that's CTC, but controlling only one reeeeeally long block.

I believe they are just active with the system. Lights are on all the time. But Pittsbield Siding and the one in Benton or Fairfield (MP109 area) is all signaled and the NMJ-Waterville section can handle multiple trains in both directions. Just needs space to pass.

gokeefe wrote:

CN9634 wrote:Trains between Waterville and NMJ proceed on signal indication, so if one sees the lamp at NMJ lit, it could mean there is a movement anywhere between Waterville and NMJ (Bog Rd, Hermon).

Interesting. So that's CTC, but controlling only one reeeeeally long block.

No it is split up into normal ABS blocks. That is just how some older CTC works (will be lit all the time based on the current direction of traffic).

KSmitty wrote:

gokeefe wrote:

CN9634 wrote:Trains between Waterville and NMJ proceed on signal indication, so if one sees the lamp at NMJ lit, it could mean there is a movement anywhere between Waterville and NMJ (Bog Rd, Hermon).

Interesting. So that's CTC, but controlling only one reeeeeally long block.

I believe they are just active with the system. Lights are on all the time. But Pittsbield Siding and the one in Benton or Fairfield (MP109 area) is all signaled and the NMJ-Waterville section can handle multiple trains in both directions. Just needs space to pass.

You got it. As CN said, the CTC starts in Hermon at CPF66 and goes to Oakland CPF119. It's all 261 with double iron between Etna CPF78 and Newport CPF80. Detroit CPF90 and Pittsfield CPF92. Benton CPF 107 and CPF 109, Waterville CPF111 and CPF112.

The old MEC signals elude me....between CP 90 and CP 92 (Pittsfield) there seems to be a long double track segment....I did not see the start of the double iron in Detroit but just east of Pittsfield (Hunnewell Rd/ Rte69 I recall) along the double track there is a tall mast signal with two targets on the northmost track and one two light dwarf on the southmost track- both for movements heading west torwards Waterville....If this is 261 (signalled in both directions, if I recall) why are there no signals for Eastward moves at this location? Maybe these are just operating remnants of the signals used for the abandoned Harmony branch junction in Pittsfield? Further south /west of Pittsfield I came across CF 93, which was at a pair of signals with three targets facing both directions, but it is single track, was this perhaps double iron here at one point?
The tall signal structure with the two sets of signals masts in Pittsfield at the end of the siding/double track was impressive with the three sets of targets on both masts...along with the old abandoned milk loading facility in the weeds next to it....one of these days I need to upload the photos to Nerail or just make a youtoob slide show of all of the neat relics I found while checking out the old MEC in Maine.

Have a nice day
Shawn in Flat Rock, MI (near the other Detroit)

I was never qualified up there, but by going by timetable:

The signals in Pittsfield you are talking about should be at Atwell Road.. those are just the distant signals to CPF92 (west end of double track). It is strange that there is a dwarf for a distant signal though, that is a rarity. Like you said it could be the leftover home signal for the branch off the #2 track. The signal for eastbound movement is the home signal at CPF92. Yes, it is 261 operation.

soday wrote:The old MEC signals elude me....between CP 90 and CP 92 (Pittsfield) there seems to be a long double track segment....I did not see the start of the double iron in Detroit but just east of Pittsfield (Hunnewell Rd/ Rte69 I recall) along the double track there is a tall mast signal with two targets on the northmost track and one two light dwarf on the southmost track- both for movements heading west torwards Waterville....If this is 261 (signalled in both directions, if I recall) why are there no signals for Eastward moves at this location? Maybe these are just operating remnants of the signals used for the abandoned Harmony branch junction in Pittsfield? Further south /west of Pittsfield I came across CF 93, which was at a pair of signals with three targets facing both directions, but it is single track, was this perhaps double iron here at one point?
The tall signal structure with the two sets of signals masts in Pittsfield at the end of the siding/double track was impressive with the three sets of targets on both masts...along with the old abandoned milk loading facility in the weeds next to it....one of these days I need to upload the photos to Nerail or just make a youtoob slide show of all of the neat relics I found while checking out the old MEC in Maine.

Have a nice day
Shawn in Flat Rock, MI (near the other Detroit)