by Gunsnclapton
What exactly did the NYSW do on Staten Island? Did they actually operate on the island or did they just operate the NJ portion of it. Just curious about it.
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Gunsnclapton wrote:What exactly did the NYSW do on Staten Island? Did they actually operate on the island or did they just operate the NJ portion of it. Just curious about it.Did the NYS&W itself do anything with the former B&O lines in New Jersey/Staten Island.
dano23 wrote:They operated it.Is that really true - according to the Wiki Article I linked to (and various memories I have from reading magazines at the time, e.g Railpace - OK, sometimes they do get stories correct) , Delaware Otsego Corporation (which was founded by Walter Rich years before it acquired NYS&W) was the parent holding company, and the company that ran it's various subsidaries including the Staten Island. Now, perhaps NYS&W was so big compared to the other DO railroads that it did, in effect, run things, even though technically it was just another subsidiary like the others - is that what you meant?
Sir Ray wrote:note: wiki lies.dano23 wrote:They operated it.Is that really true - according to the Wiki Article I linked to (and various memories I have from reading magazines at the time, e.g Railpace - OK, sometimes they do get stories correct) , Delaware Otsego Corporation (which was founded by Walter Rich years before it acquired NYS&W) was the parent holding company, and the company that ran it's various subsidaries including the Staten Island. Now, perhaps NYS&W was so big compared to the other DO railroads that it did, in effect, run things, even though technically it was just another subsidiary like the others - is that what you meant?
Sir Ray wrote:dano23 wrote:They operated it.Is that really true - according to the Wiki Article I linked to (and various memories I have from reading magazines at the time, e.g Railpace - OK, sometimes they do get stories correct) , Delaware Otsego Corporation (which was founded by Walter Rich years before it acquired NYS&W) was the parent holding company, and the company that ran it's various subsidaries including the Staten Island. Now, perhaps NYS&W was so big compared to the other DO railroads that it did, in effect, run things, even though technically it was just another subsidiary like the others - is that what you meant?
DogBert wrote:I believe the entire line is now owned by the NYNJ Port Authority, including the travis branch.Hmm, this site (photo caption) has a slightly different take on the '80s:
When DO took over from CSX(BO) in the 80s, they ran all the way to the ferry terminal. I believe around 85 it was cut back half the distance and eventually became just a run over the bridge to P&G. P&G had, at one point, their own in-plant railway switching. The travis branch was shut down in the 80s as well, when con ed stopped keeping a coal stockpile/backup power at the end of the line.
In November 1957, an Esso oil tanker collided with the old Arthur Kill bridge, knocking it off its central pivot. With the bridge rendered useless, the B&O immediately transferred all Staten Island freight to Jersey City. Car floats were used to bring Staten Island rail traffic back to St. George. By 1959, a new 558 foot single track vertical lift span replaced the old swing bridge. It is the longest of its type in the U.S. Along with the new bridge, the entire line from Cranford Jct to Arlington Yard was re-laid with new, heavier rail. A three mile branch line was extended from Gulf Port to Travis, along Staten Island’s west shore. This was done for unit coal trains coming from West Virginia to service a new Consolidated Edison power plant. Even late in the 1950’s, the B&O continued to invest in its New Jersey and Staten Island holdings.Maybe a gap there in chronology (it was a photo caption after all), but did the DO have any reason to run to St. George in revenue freight? The float yard was gone, and I really don't know of any freight customers in the area, even back then.
By 1973, the Jersey Central closed its car float yard at Jersey City. The B&O then moved its car float freight back to St. George on Staten Island. In September 1979, this car float operation was taken over by the New York Dock Railway and was terminated in 1980. The St. George Yard was essentially abandoned, except for servicing a few isolated Staten Island industries still using rail service.
The interline tariff routing arrangement used by B&O/Chessie to reach New Jersey and New York was ended by Conrail in the early 1980’s, leaving the line completely out of the New Jersey freight market. In April 1985, the operating rights for the tracks between Cranford Jct to St. George were sold to the Delaware-Otsego Corp. of Cooperstown, NY.
Sir Ray wrote:Maybe a gap there in chronology (it was a photo caption after all), but did the DO have any reason to run to St. George in revenue freight? The float yard was gone, and I really don't know of any freight customers in the area, even back then.They might have. There was, in addition to the freight-only North Shore Line between the AK Drawbridge and St. George, trackage rights on the Staten Island Rapid Transit (SIRT), now (as of 1994) the Staten Island Railway (SIR) owned by the MTA, between St. George and Tottenville, the southern extreme of Staten Island. There was a smelting plant near Tottenville (Nassau Smelting) that used rail freight for many years, but that was probably gone by the time NYSW/DO operated the SIRR (Nassau Smelting was probably out of business by mid-late 1980s at the latest, as the plant site attained "brownfield" status when some buildings were demolished in about 1986) as well as a newspaper (the Staten Island Advance) that used to get newsprint, somewhere near Clifton I think. Both of these customers (among others on the SIRT line) were accessed via the SIRT trackage rights, but I'm not sure when those customers stopped using rail. If any were still active freight customers in the NYSW/DO operation period, that probably would be their reason for operating the full length of the North Shore Line to St. George, as opposed to any other freight customers on the North Shore line east of Mariners Harbor. I actually think I recall seeing one of the NYSW SW's on the SIRT trackage in the Clifton area, don't recall exactly when, and no, I didn't get a picture.