• Possible full-scale T1 replica?

  • Discussion of steam locomotives from all manufacturers and railroads
Discussion of steam locomotives from all manufacturers and railroads

Moderators: slide rules, Typewriters

  by Colonel32
Had this idea actually been raised before? Although most of the replicas focus on small engines, the British have succeeded in building an A1 Tornado from scratch, and that is a pretty big locomotive. So how about a T1? Do original factory blueprints still exist? Well, at least it could be finally settled if it was faster than Mallard if it managed to be rebuilt.
  by Allen Hazen
Yes, it has been discussed, in a string I have just bounced up to the top of the forum index.
(((MODERATOR: Is it possible to consolidate these two strings?)))

I participated in the previous discussion, so the following may be a repetition of what I've already said, but...
(1) Like you, I'd love to see this done! And the British A-1 project ought to be an inspiration to American rail enthusiasts: if the citizens of a country with a quarter as many people as the U.S. can make a project like this happen, why can't we?

(2) Money is the big problem: you fund it, and it will happen. I don't have an estimate to offer, but this is surely a multi-million dollar task.

(3) A couple of other problems:
(i) Modern American steam locomotives had cast frames: single-piece steel castings that included the main structural frame of the engine, typically the cylinders, sometimes the air reservoirs... I think duplicating this in today's industrial environment might be harder than anything needed for a British-design steam locomotive.
(ii) It's no fun if we can't operate it, and most major railroads are at least CAUTIOUS about letting big steam loose on their lines. My guess is that a T-1's long rigid wheelbase would tend to make it less compatible with modern railroad infrastructure than, say, a New York Central J.

((((4) Just for the record... I'm a fan of GE diesel locomotives. How about trying to build a replica, not of some teakettle, but, say, of a Bush Terminal 60-ton, Ingersoll-Rand engined, switcher? Or of one of the high-nosed U25B prototypes?))) (Grin!)

Apologies if I sound negative. I think it's a neat idea... though not one Ihave much hope of seeing realized.
  by GSC
If you can find a park engine with a sound boiler and still-good frame and running gear, you'd save quite a few bucks. We priced a new replacement boiler for a 1914 Porter 2-6-0 we're restoring. Far cheaper to do a restoration if the boiler is good.

Being practical vs having fun building it yourself.
  by Steffen
Well.. what's all the rumor about the "Mallard"?
How fast did it really go and how long can it hold this speed?
I don't believe in the 125 mph - I think the "Mallard" did it once, but never really again. Because there are reports, that after this run the middle drive rod had fractions, two of the main bearings had failures and the bearing temperature were close to the red flag.
So it outbet 05 002 of the german Reichsbahn, but 05 002 was able to go the 200 km/h a couple of times without damage - but it wasn't able to keep the speed a prolongued time, because it was tricked by using the so called "boiler capacity reserve" - on which a firemen established hell in the firebox. A good burned fire is densely packed and maintained, then the boiler is feed up to the highest possible top and then the fire is made hell. Now, with the heat of tousand devils in the firebox, the boiler steams, usually more than the feedpump can deliever, thus the water level drops on those high steam consumption rates - but you can overpower the engine, thus reach top speeds. The track of 05 002 on record run was even, those of "Mallard" slightly descending. So "Mallard" was running downhills, 05 002 was running on even track.
"Mallard" failed after the record run and needed service, 05 002 was only low on water and needed shut of the throttle and waiting till the feed pump raised the water level again... after this, the process could have repeated - for another sprint of 200 km/h. Thus 05 002 was the secret winner of this, but german not only lost the record, but also a war and this development was stopped.

Thus regarding the power of the T-1 the "Mallard" is no match, even 05 002 is no match for the most US locomotives. Even the ALCO series 800 is much stronger and better designed as the 05 002, thus outbeat 05 002 in power and speed duration, if you want to try.
US locomotives travel usually only around 80 up to 90 mph, but the loads they carry would overload the british A4 series at start, and even outbeat series 05 of germany with ease... thus don't compare those runners with each other...

To rebuild the T-1: Well, this is such a big project, I think this won't get real.
  by Desertdweller
CRS here. Are we talking T1 as in Reading 4-8-4? Or T1 as in PRR 4-4-4-4?

German 05 not having the poop needed? How about a CB&Q 05b?

  by jaygee
Many Reading T-1s have already been "rebuilt". This is a scratch built PRR T1 that will be very close to to an original.
  by amtrakhogger
T-1's, unofficially (of course), were known to have been run around 120mph or more. I wonder why the Pennsy would be so disinterested in trying to set a world speed record with the T-1?
  by jaygee
Anything positive about the T1 coming from the Penn would cloud the issue of Diesel purchases with the board. This would be on top of any other more "down to Earth" criticism the PRR might face for being irresponsible and child-like.
  by Allen Hazen
Steffen (in case you check in on something you posted almost three years ago!)--
Re: "Even the ALCO series 800 is much stronger and better designed as the 05 002,"
What are you referring to? I can think of two (VERY different) 4-8-4 types built by Alco and numbered in the 800s:
(1) High pressure experimental built for the New York Central (whose potential power may never have been tested, since it was retired early, largely I think because it was a maintenance horror)
(2) Conventional, but good, locomotives for the Union Pacific (one of which was tested at a speed not much under 100 mp -- not as flashy as the very high speeds achieved by Mallard and 05 002, but closer to something that might have been useful in regular service -- with a FAR heavier train than pulled by either of the European speedsters)
  by Allen Hazen
When this idea first came up, most of the participants in this forum -- me included! -- were sceptical: it seemed unlikely to go ahead.
Well… The organization is still going strong, they have been scanning and digitizing blueprints, and have apparently talked to foundries about, and prepared at least part of the wooden patterns for, casting new Boxpok driving wheel centres for the T-1.
So… Maybe?
There is a two page article about the project, by representatives of the organization, in the December 2015 issue of "Railfan and Railroad," pp. 60-61.
  by jaygee
Driver number one is cast, and a lot of smaller parts have been put together. Will take some time, but things are looking up !