Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

  by OportRailfan
The installation of one of the floodgates is very visible.

Not sure about lining the tunnel walls with metal plates though. Maybe I should go for a ride and take a look...
  by R36 Combine Coach
Remember the 1993 bomb plot that targeted the WTC, also targeted the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels, GW Bridge and PATH tunnels. The PANYNJ was the clear target.
  by frank754
I'm very glad they are doing this. This was complete news to me. PATH is a great asset to NY & NJ, and as mentioned are over 100 years old and very vulnerable in mud rather than through rock, with no buffer zone in case of a breach. This should really improve the confidence factor of the tunnels and the safety of the riders.
  by HBLR
I'll feel way safer when the project is complete!
  by frank754
And besides PATH, the story today on the news is that they have been doing the same work on the East River subway tunnels as well, and perhaps a bit of work on the bridges (Hudson as well as East River). I guess, from what I gather, is that they were not forthcoming with the information when the project started, but now it seems that the information has been opened up to the media. It's definitely a good thing, due to the age and vulnerability of all these priceless assets.
  by HBLR
I am still curious about the sediment drift in the hudson affecting the tubes. I mean i know they will eventually drift somewhat into a bow shape?
  by jlr3266
Nothing noticeable. The tunnels are flexible due to the cast iron rings.
  by NegativeApproach
I understand the erosion problem arose after the construction of Battery Park City shifted the river's current channel west of its old location, but I only heard about it affecting the Holland Tunnel.

Nothing noticeable? Then what's up with this story, and what exactly is this mysterious "Technology"?


The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey

March 12, 2010 – The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey has undertaken an initiative that has been publically designated as the "PATH Tunnel Erosion Protection" Project. The Project involves the installation of a Technology designed by the Port Authority, which will be placed on the riverbed above the public transportation tunnels and is designed to mitigate certain damage to the tunnels. The Technology also includes selection of the subcontractors responsible for the manufacturing and implementation of the Technology. This Developmental Testing and Evaluation Designation will expire on April 30, 2013
  by HBLR
If you had a hurricane make landfall and track up through into the hudson valley, the resulting flooding could easily scour away enough sediment to cause alarm here and there, so that other thing you're mentioning just makes sense. I remember some other transit agency protecting the interfaces of their river tunnels not too long ago.
  by R36 Combine Coach
The PATH tunnel into the WTC could also be affected by enviromental erosion, since it was built into the WTC "bathtub" which was in landfill along the Manhattan shoreline over the last 400 years.
  by HBLR
The original layout had the tubes ending much farther into manhattan than they do now. For a time one of the old tube sections complete with iron rings could be seen from many places including from the train. It was in the wall between the "wet" part of the "bathtub" and the "dry" part to the east.

Not sure if anyone has posted the photos of when WTC was built, but they had the old tubes suspended in the air to allow mostly uninterrupted service to continue.

As far as erosion, i feel the part under word financial center into the wtc bathtub is safe, it's the part a bit out into the river away from the fill that concerns me.
  by jaystreetcrr
I work in lower Manhattan and I've been watching this operation for a while. A giant floating marine crane lowers these things that look like massive skateboard half pipes. It's on the Jersey side so I can't see in detail what's involved but after seeing this for a while I assumed it was part of the PATH terror proofing.
  by HBLR
It's actually some kind of "blanket". I think they look curved because the rig can only hold up 2 sides. You can tell these things are really heavy too, because the crane barge will be noticably tilting towards the load. It could be some kind of woven steel fabric inside some kind of plastic or composite wrap, at least that's what it looks like. The crane has a GPS antenna mounted on the top, so i'm guessing they are trying to be failry accurate where they lay these things down. Also, they go very, very slow. The one day i stood watching it took them a good 20 minutes to get it fully submerged.

It should be noted that Weeks Marine also moved four locomotives from a barge onto flat bed trucks over on staten island for the staten island railway not too long ago. They used a bigger crane for that operation i believe.