Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

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  by lensovet
 
Oh right, I forgot about that. Well, once that work is done, you can have sane schedules again…and eliminate 90% of the cost by just connecting the existing station to the city.

But that would be too logical of course :-D
  by jamesinclair
 
lensovet wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:59 pm Oh right, I forgot about that. Well, once that work is done, you can have sane schedules again…and eliminate 90% of the cost by just connecting the existing station to the city.

But that would be too logical of course :-D
The thing is, will the work ever be done? I believe it started in 2012, after Sandy. Amtrak has not once reported an end date.
  by EuroStar
 
There will never be a different weekend schedule until a new tunnel is built under the Hudson. One to three trains bunched up within a few minutes is what is required to allow for weekend maintenance work. That was the way before Sandy. That will remain the way after Sandy. As for just connecting the station to the neighborhood and calling it a day. There are two issues:
1.The station was built with some airport fee money and FAA regulations say that any infrastructure built that way is for air passenger exclusive use only.
2.If PATH is not extended then the Port Authority cannot pay for the station work. NJT will need to come up with the money and of course NJT does not have them.

But yes, connecting the station without the expensive PATH extension is the sane thing to do.
  by lensovet
 
EuroStar wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:47 am There will never be a different weekend schedule until a new tunnel is built under the Hudson. One to three trains bunched up within a few minutes is what is required to allow for weekend maintenance work. That was the way before Sandy. That will remain the way after Sandy. As for just connecting the station to the neighborhood and calling it a day. There are two issues:
1.The station was built with some airport fee money and FAA regulations say that any infrastructure built that way is for air passenger exclusive use only.
2.If PATH is not extended then the Port Authority cannot pay for the station work. NJT will need to come up with the money and of course NJT does not have them.

But yes, connecting the station without the expensive PATH extension is the sane thing to do.
You're right, I was just looking at the Amtrak website where all their "NYP renewal" work supposedly finished in August of this year. But I am a bit confused on the maintenance aspect. Is there really no end to this until a new tunnel is built?

re: airport fee money, that makes sense, but I don't understand how a PATH extension sidesteps the issue?
  by andrewjw
 
lensovet wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:22 am
EuroStar wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:47 am There will never be a different weekend schedule until a new tunnel is built under the Hudson. One to three trains bunched up within a few minutes is what is required to allow for weekend maintenance work. That was the way before Sandy. That will remain the way after Sandy. As for just connecting the station to the neighborhood and calling it a day. There are two issues:
1.The station was built with some airport fee money and FAA regulations say that any infrastructure built that way is for air passenger exclusive use only.
2.If PATH is not extended then the Port Authority cannot pay for the station work. NJT will need to come up with the money and of course NJT does not have them.

But yes, connecting the station without the expensive PATH extension is the sane thing to do.
You're right, I was just looking at the Amtrak website where all their "NYP renewal" work supposedly finished in August of this year. But I am a bit confused on the maintenance aspect. Is there really no end to this until a new tunnel is built?

re: airport fee money, that makes sense, but I don't understand how a PATH extension sidesteps the issue?
There is no end until a new tunnel is built. "NYP renewal" refers to track work within Penn during the summers where tracks or switches are taken out of service.

PATH extension built with non-airport-earmarked money means the facility will be released from the lock.
  by Kilgore Trout
 
Idle thought: would it be better to instead extend the EWR AirTrain to Newark Penn when it's replaced? It's about 2.5 miles further, which is not really all that far when you consider that the JFK AirTrain is about 2.5 miles from Jamaica to Federal Circle. I assume Amtrak and NJTransit would be all in favor since closing the EWR mainline station would simplify their operations.

Of course there are benefits to extending PATH (direct city access, possibility of infill stations), just wondering if this has been considered.
  by Tom V
 
I think they should move the Airlink station further South between McClellan street (Newark) and North ave, (Elizabeth) and then close the North Elizabeth station. Connect the new Airtrain to the facility. There are some trains that serve North Elizabeth and not the EWR airport rail link station. That would boost airport service to NY Penn until a new Hudson tunnel can be built.
  by pumpers
 
Well, this is a bit off topic but it's the closest I could find. I'm posting here because the monorail is sort of a train, and because there was talk once about extending PATH directly to the terminals.

If we are lucky, we might see the new monorail at Newark Airport in 2026 according to this article last month. (long before any PATH extension, if that's true) https://www.nj.com/news/2021/02/new-air ... orail.html
The new monorail has been talked about for years, so I take it with a grain of salt.

On the other hand, the new Terminal One, which will replace terminal A, has been cruising right along and will open in late 21 or early 22, I've read elsewhere. The existing monorail doesn't reach it. In what seems like a 3rd world type of screw-up, for at least 4 years, and probably more, there will be quite a schlep to reach it (see the end of the article).
  by lensovet
 
Thanks for posting. This project is absolutely nuts.

First and foremost, everyone loves to hate this train. Yet it runs 24/7 with 98.11% uptime. That's crazy good! All for $354M in 1996, so about $14M/year. That's under $6/rider and they charge you $5.50. So basically we have a system that has paid for itself and needs maintenance. The biggest issues with it are that (a) it drops you off on the wrong side of security, so there's no way to connect between the terminals quickly when you have a short layover, and (b) it doesn't connect to the economy parking lot.

And what is the proposed replacement? Some crazy "linear" contraption which requires a half-mile walk to terminal B and does not address the biggest deficiencies of the existing system. Talk about boondoggle. No mention of cost btw since of course they haven't picked what technology they are going to use. But I guess their big plan is terminal 2, which might be closer to where the line is, and they don't want to restrict themselves to the current oval (and potentially get rid of it eventually). Though unclear when and if that's going to come to be.

Worth noting that the comment period is open for 30 days, so I recommend writing in.
  by pumpers
 
lensovet wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:14 am Thanks for posting. This project is absolutely nuts.
For sure. When Terminal One opens, all the Port Authority robo-speakers will be telling us in a cacophony of PR what a great "improved passenger experience" it is and airport of the 21st century, blah blah blah. Clearly the speakers won't be the ones schlepping their luggage long distances for some number of years which could easily reach into the double digits.
Jim S
  by pumpers
 
Continuing the EWR monorail subject, even if off the original topics

https://www.nj.com/news/2021/08/feds-ok ... orail.html

Fair use quote" The effort to replace Newark Liberty International Airport’s cantankerous 26-year-old monorail with a modern, more reliable AirTrain got a big boost from the Federal Aviation Administration, which green-lighted the plan."

Notable facts in the story:

The new monorail won't go to Terminal B (there will be some sort of 2200 (!!) feet long people mover, to be decided. I hope that's because Terminal B will eventually go away (next one to be replaced after Terminal A, which is to be within a year I think by "New Terminal A" (previously called Terminal One"). Perhaps more disturbing, the article says it won't go directly to terminal C, which I think will be around even longer. This is hard for me to believe given that United is by far the biggest user of Newark.

It would be built separate from the existing monorail. They have not yet decided if the new system will be trains with steel wheels, trains with rubber tires, and/or trains that are cable propelled.

The new one is supposed to be done by 2026, with construction starting in Q1 2022 and system testing in Q1 2025.

While this is overall good news, given that to the best of my knowledge (which admittedly isn't much) that don't have bids yet and don't know what type of system they want, I think we can say FUHGETABOUTIT with respect to construction starting in 6 months.
  by west point
 
Hope that the PA can do a better job of locating all the underground utilities. It was a disaster when building the present people mover. Un documented lines caused at least two terminal power outages when mover being built. Suspect that it will not be any different. Fuel and Natural gas lines are every where, every where, every where.
  by Tom V
 
pumpers wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:51 pm Continuing the EWR monorail subject, even if off the original topics

https://www.nj.com/news/2021/08/feds-ok ... orail.html

Fair use quote" The effort to replace Newark Liberty International Airport’s cantankerous 26-year-old monorail with a modern, more reliable AirTrain got a big boost from the Federal Aviation Administration, which green-lighted the plan."

Notable facts in the story:

The new monorail won't go to Terminal B (there will be some sort of 2200 (!!) feet long people mover, to be decided. I hope that's because Terminal B will eventually go away (next one to be replaced after Terminal A, which is to be within a year I think by "New Terminal A" (previously called Terminal One"). Perhaps more disturbing, the article says it won't go directly to terminal C, which I think will be around even longer. This is hard for me to believe given that United is by far the biggest user of Newark.

It would be built separate from the existing monorail. They have not yet decided if the new system will be trains with steel wheels, trains with rubber tires, and/or trains that are cable propelled.

The new one is supposed to be done by 2026, with construction starting in Q1 2022 and system testing in Q1 2025.

While this is overall good news, given that to the best of my knowledge (which admittedly isn't much) that don't have bids yet and don't know what type of system they want, I think we can say FUHGETABOUTIT with respect to construction starting in 6 months.
They do have bids, they have three bids (there was four but one just dropped out)

https://www.enr.com/articles/51708-four ... eplacement

Liberty AirTrain Partners
Skanska USA Civil Northeast, Inc.; SNC-Lavalin Project Services, Inc.; COWI North America, Inc.; and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries America, Inc.

Tutor Perini/Parsons JV
Tutor-Perini Corp.; Parsons Construction Group, Inc.; and Doppelmayr Cable Car America, Inc.

Liberty Integrated Connectors
Dragados USA, Inc.; Halmar International LLC; Schiavone Construction Co. LLC; HDR Engineering, Inc.; and BYD Transit Solutions LLC


The technology the Airtrain will use depends on which consortium wins the bid.

Mitusbushi builds the new APM's at Orlando (MCO) International airport
https://www.mhi.com/news/1407171817.html

BYD:
http://www.byd.com/en/Rail.html

Doppelmayr Cable Car
https://www.dcc.at/company/doppelmayr-c ... companies/
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