Plug Door Boxcars (was "Hobos")

mick wrote:Dadgum it, your'e right Commander. That is an old bulletin, no longer required to be carried. .

It's no longer required to be carried because the bulletin mentioned to add the rule to the PAR saftey manual. Which frankly just shows that someone higher up is not thinking. Because what happens to a new hire? He or she will never have the info because the saftey rule book have never been updated and the bulletin is gone.

mick wrote:But the point is, open plug doors are a problem around Lowell because of Trespassers. Train crews have been cautioned by our Orginizations against trying to close them, because any injuries incurred may be blamed on them.

I am sure the company would blame the crews. That's just how it is. And it works both ways. If the Conductor refuses to attempt to close an open door and in turn delays a train to set the car out, he or she could end up in an investigation for delaying a train. And what will there defense be? they have no rule to back them up. That's like a Conductor saying "I'm not changing out that knuckle because i might hurt my back". It's part of your job description. You would lose the argument.

And on the same note, if he or she DID attempt to close the plug door and got hurt, they would hang you for not setting the car out. Bottom line, know the rules, know what you are and are NOT allowed to do and follow accordingly. If your scared to attempt to close a plug door that by rules, you are allowed to close, just say "I tried, it won't budge, sorry". The car department will not rat you out, in fact, they will thank you for the easy task that got them some extra time.

I make it a point to always be cooperative to the Yardmasters and Dispatchers. Because they are the ones who can get you in trouble. I just never say no. If (for example) a Dispatcher told me to do something that was allowed by rules, but i was unsure of my ability in completing the task, i would just say "Ok, no problem" and then ultimatley say "I tried, but it would'nt work. Sorry". Problem solved. You don't get hurt and your not accused of being uncooperative.

Littleredcaboose wrote:Plug Doors...Last Night and having spent a couple of cold nights on MBTA Commuter Rail Platforms after missing the last train after a long night on the job I noticed that the bench I was sleeping on had a latch. Having nothing else to do for hours I opened it up and lo and behold it was a "Foam Platform Extentender" Then I took a walk up to the High Leval Platform for a smoke on my pipe and noticed that yellow peices on the platform were littered on the tracks. Apparrently Plug doors can sideswipe passenger platforms and other trains. Also open plug doors can fall off on the tracks and even people.

Because the MBCR does not use Gauntlet tracks, the only option is to use the foam platform extenders. They are for yes, open plug doors and also for any other wide load issue such as shifted lading, etc. Those foam extenders are mounted on collapsible aluminum brackets that fold in when struck. They also allow the extenders to be raised and secured in that position so that wide loads can be accomodated.

Plug doors are not a threat to passing trains. The track spacing is enough to clear an open plug door from striking another train it is passing. Other then station platorms, the biggest issue is them falling off. They are not designed to be open when a car is in motion and because of that, the brackets holding them on cannot be relied upon to support them under exessive forces.

Littleredcaboose wrote:The cars that hobos ride have sliding doors that open open in transit or are left open to air out the cars. (Chemical Treated lumber can build up fumes that could be toxic and even explosive).

Most sliding doors are left open simply because they can be. Customers simply don't want to be bothered and on top of that, there is never any question for the railroad as to whether the car is empty. There are no rules that say sliding doors must be closed.

While they do leave them open to air out cars last carrying commodities such as treated lumber, those fumes can be toxic but they are not explosive in any way. The chemicals themselves are not even flammable.


I am hearing that Rigby has been temporaly downsized so maybe thats why Lowell is a parking lot...As for the hobos they said that came from Baton Rouge LA and if they had service dogs the fare to Portland is like 20.00 or so...Even if they could get to Dover NH they would be better off as there is a night train and crew change there at the Station and Dover is a College Town UNH[/quote]

Because the MBCR does not use Gauntlet tracks, the only option is to use the foam platform extenders. They are for yes, open plug doors and also for any other wide load issue such as shifted lading, etc. Those foam extenders are mounted on collapsible aluminum brackets that fold in when struck. They also allow the extenders to be raised and secured in that position so that wide loads can be accomodated.

Plug doors are not a threat to passing trains. The track spacing is enough to clear an open plug door from striking another train it is passing. Other then station platorms, the biggest issue is them falling off. They are not designed to be open when a car is in motion and because of that, the brackets holding them on cannot be relied upon to support them under exessive forces.

Most sliding doors are left open simply because they can be. Customers simply don't want to be bothered and on top of that, there is never any question for the railroad as to whether the car is empty. There are no rules that say sliding doors must be closed.

While they do leave them open to air out cars last carrying commodities such as treated lumber, those fumes can be toxic but they are not explosive in any way. The chemicals themselves are not even flammable.

Before the thread became unavailable, I was in the middle of commenting about a post, from whom, I don't recall.

The gist of it was, if a bulletin was cancelled, how will a new guy know it's content? (referring to closing plug doors by TEY employees). If such is the case on Pan Am, the FRA should step right in and assign new management who can safely operate the road. Both for the benefit of the public, and it's employees.

On most other carriers, a bulletin is cancelled only by another bulletin, or the issuance of a new General Order. General Orders are only cancelled by a newly issued System Special instructions. The SSI is only cancelled by the issuance of a new book of rules. There must be continuity in the chain of information. Otherwise, that is how people get hurt or killed.

Those who use electronic versions of the Rules, Orders, and Bulletins have a distinct advantage as those updates are all incorporated into the version when a new Order is issued, and it is easily search-able.

Folks, if you have questions about how the forum is run, just ask me directly. Easiest way to get resolution.

Just home from the day job. Stand by while I review everything, okay? Sometimes I dont have time to write polite notes to everyone involved.

-otto-

NV290 wrote: Most sliding doors are left open simply because they can be. Customers simply don't want to be bothered and on top of that, there is never any question for the railroad as to whether the car is empty. There are no rules that say sliding doors must be closed.

Actually there are rules. Depends on the commodity. Cement plant wants the doors closed. As do the meat rendering plants. Customers are billed for doors if appropriate.

NV290 wrote:
Plug doors are not a threat to passing trains. The track spacing is enough to clear an open plug door from striking another train it is passing. Other then station platorms, the biggest issue is them falling off. They are not designed to be open when a car is in motion and because of that, the brackets holding them on cannot be relied upon to support them under exessive forces.

Again, I have seen my share of accidents involving plug doors on both single track and double mains. All cars with plug doors are not accepted for shipment out here unless latched by customers, or mechanical forces.

HoggerKen wrote:

NV290 wrote: Most sliding doors are left open simply because they can be. Customers simply don't want to be bothered and on top of that, there is never any question for the railroad as to whether the car is empty. There are no rules that say sliding doors must be closed.

Actually there are rules. Depends on the commodity. Cement plant wants the doors closed. As do the meat rendering plants. Customers are billed for doors if appropriate.

Are you talking about hoppers or boxcars? All hopper cars are to have all hatches, sliders and gates closed. Especially cement cars. But as far as boxcars go, i have never in my years seen a railroad rule that says you cannot pull a boxcar from an industry or refuse a boxcar at interchange because of an open sliding door (Slider, not plug door) on an empty car. If there is a requirement to have the doors closed after emptying or while in transit, then it's between the two vendors. Not the railroad. The railroad does not enforce, nor adhere to those policies. At least not on CSX.

I am talking slilding door boxes, CNW 6127** series. CNW and UPRR both said these doors shall be closed prior to transit, and all cars pulled from spot will have the doors closed, plug or sliding. Once tendered in interchange however, there is no rule.

HoggerKen wrote:

NV290 wrote:
Plug doors are not a threat to passing trains. The track spacing is enough to clear an open plug door from striking another train it is passing. Other then station platorms, the biggest issue is them falling off. They are not designed to be open when a car is in motion and because of that, the brackets holding them on cannot be relied upon to support them under exessive forces.

Again, I have seen my share of accidents involving plug doors on both single track and double mains. All cars with plug doors are not accepted for shipment out here unless latched by customers, or mechanical forces.

As i said earlier, i know you cannot move a car with an open plug door except to set it out. And you cannot pull one from an industry. I was talking about sliding doors, not plug doors. But dimension wise, an open plug door should not foul an adjacent track. I pass trains often with open plug doors and tell them on the radio they are open. Happens pretty often. But not once has a plug door hit my train as i was passing it. The dimensions on track centers allow enough room.

NV290 wrote:But dimension wise, an open plug door should not foul an adjacent track. I pass trains often with open plug doors and tell them on the radio they are open. Happens pretty often. But not once has a plug door hit my train as i was passing it. The dimensions on track centers allow enough room.

It is not about clearance, it is being sucked or blown off it's arms, which can and has happened very easily. Thus is the reason they must be closed prior to pulling.

Plug doors should not be handled by train crews or engineering forces receiving a load, we always get mechanical to come help us with it. Hell I've seen plug doors tack welded on to the car before.
And hobos should be reported to the RR police especially if they have a dog. I was working in a yard once and had a dog jump off this boxcar and come at me. I went through 2 cans of mace stopping the thing and ran into my truck like a little girl and called the B&O bulls right away.

Arrestmespi wrote:Plug doors should not be handled by train crews or engineering forces receiving a load, we always get mechanical to come help us with it. Hell I've seen plug doors tack welded on to the car before.
And hobos should be reported to the RR police especially if they have a dog. I was working in a yard once and had a dog jump off this boxcar and come at me. I went through 2 cans of mace stopping the thing and ran into my truck like a little girl and called the B&O bulls right away.

Brake sticks are your friend.

not these new aluminum ones they issue the crews out here, they are complete POS's, But I'm not on a train crew, and I've got plenty of handy tools.
a linemans wrench will leave a mark, so will two switch locks on a piece of chain

Arrestmespi wrote:not these new aluminum ones they issue the crews out here, they are complete POS's, But I'm not on a train crew, and I've got plenty of handy tools.
a linemans wrench will leave a mark, so will two switch locks on a piece of chain

Oh I don't know, the short brake sticks (1 meter) are quite handy. I am an old guy, and can swing that long stick quite well. Aim at the knees boys.