Pioneer Valley Commuter Rail/Western MA and Southern VT

TomNelligan wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote: I don't understand this mentality, which seems to have survived intact from the Patrick-to-Baker handoff, that this service has to be rushed like a "use it or lose it" proposition. Why roll out lousy transit that can't connect to anything useful and is guaranteed to bleed red for its first 5 years, when simply exercising some patience and waiting the 5 years for the connections to fill in gives it a much better chance of hitting the ground with momentum that begs for future expansion?

Isn't at least part of this rush an effort to throw some highly visible transit money out west for the benefit of the local pols (whose votes Baker will need in connection with MBTA reform)? Making friends out in that wilderness beyond Worcester was certainly one of Deval's motivations.

Cutting Amtrak a check to poke some Shuttles 3 stops north is a much more immediately visible way of doing that than throwing together a few T-logo jalopies and wondering how the hell they're going to keep them from breaking down 75 miles away from maint HQ. Frequencies using Amtrak would also be almost identical to the best they could go alone. So that's the most logical way to approach it.

The interregnum where Shuttles serving Greenfield gives way to commuter rail serving Greenfield and Shuttles being reassigned east to Boston times more perfectly with the Hartford Line scale-up and any probable build schedules for Inland service. So it also works best for priming the pump on both state-level service expansion initiatives out of Springfield. (And, yes, if Baker is seeking buy-in across the state for transportation funding the Inlands are hard to pass up seeing as how they have pro-rail constituencies in Boston, MetroWest, Worcester County, and Springfield/Hampden County tied neatly together by one corridor.)


MassDOT vs. CDOT, Patrick vs. Malloy...lot of bad blood there the last 2-4 years. CDOT was really nonplussed at MassDOT's unwillingness to pay fair share for major NHHS components like the layover; MA pretty much folded the tent the second the fed grants came in for the Springfield Union renovations. And Patrick made an enemy out of Malloy announcing that whole strange Berkshire Line train over an unwilling CT's head when the majority of the cost and logistical concerns were south of the border...then rubbing it in Malloy's face by chartering that MBTA train full of dignitaries across the border into New Caanan and giving a speech on foreign soil about how he (Patrick) was going to deliver them (Nutmeggers) a one-seat to New York. Not a single CT official attended the event, or went on-record making comment about it.

So there's a lot of frayed nerves and fence-mending to do in that working relationship. Most of it over petty, personality-driven stuff like that...with Patrick oddly being the aggressor (not normally his style at all). It's hard to tell where the relationship stands now because Baker simply hasn't had a lot of high-profile opportunities to go out and talk Western MA transportation. One would hope they can turn the page and see the obvious efficiencies they can both gain by working together; they'll have to if the Inlands are anyone's priority. The new MA regime is probably treading lightly out of fear of the unknown until the two governors have a chance for more quality facetime. I certainly can't imagine relations would stay status-quo as strained as before since the Berkshire folly more or less ended when Patrick's term did, and that was the primary irritant. But it would be a big missed opportunity to not coordinate. I just don't see how go-it-alone for first dibs makes for useful service when coordinating clocks around the phased rollout can scale so much better with initial momentum that begs for more.

Starting a little late for this:

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/i91viadu ... /Home.aspx

Could the commuter rail be for this when commuters will be looking for better alternatives while 91 goes through its version of the Big Dig?

The transportation secretary is new, the MBTA GM is different, but the MassDOT staff would be largely the same. I don't think Baker is focused on this stuff. I'm thinking Patrick stirred up the locals with his promises of shiny new monorails, I mean commuter rail. So I think the local pols and regional planning commission are the ones saying it's a priority. In the article above http://www.masslive.com/business-news/i ... iver_indexPollack urged caution:

A clear definition of success is important Pollack said. In 2014, the MBTA started offering late night bus and subway service in Boston without a clear rubric.

"We are now trying to untangle that," she told reporters Wednesday in Springfield where she acted as chairwoman of the Metropolitan Planning Organization conducted at the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote: And Patrick made an enemy out of Malloy announcing that whole strange Berkshire Line train over an unwilling CT's head when the majority of the cost and logistical concerns were south of the border...then rubbing it in Malloy's face by chartering that MBTA train full of dignitaries across the border into New Caanan and giving a speech on foreign soil about how he (Patrick) was going to deliver them (Nutmeggers) a one-seat to New York. Not a single CT official attended the event, or went on-record making comment about it.

Believe you meant to say North Canaan, not New Canaan... otherwise that would be quite a charter trip.

I'm honestly not sure if we have a thread on this or not; it's really not NHHS (Hartford line), it's sort of "Inland" route, but not really? And it's not really the "Vermonter", although some of this may run along the route.

Anyway, if the moderator wants to merge this into an overall thread, or use this as the "seed" post, your call!

Really lengthy look at rail for the region: Business West

Some fair-use SNIPS:

Region States Its Case for Expanded Rail

Since Amtrak’s Vermonter returned to the so-called Connecticut River Line just over a year ago, bringing back passenger rail service to Northampton, Holyoke, and Greenfield after a nearly 30-year hiatus, officials in those cities say the train has done what they hoped it would — enable people to make connections. But the single train per day has certainly limited the number of those connections, they note, which is why they’re calling for additional north-south service while also pressing the state to make long-dreamed-of plans for an east-west line that would connect Springfield with Worcester and Boston a reality.

...

That Northampton train platform became a line on the Vermonter schedule just over a year ago, joining Greenfield and (several months later) Holyoke as new stops for this service amid considerable fanfare from those communities’ elected officials and area economic-development leaders.

Actually, these are new/old stops for the Vermonter, which used to run along what’s known as the Connecticut River Line, or Conn River Line, until 1989, when the deteriorated condition of the track forced the service to move east and run from Springfield to Palmer to Amherst and then Vermont, a far more rural trek that bypassed several of the region’s most populous cities.

...

Tim Brennan, executive director of the Pioneer Valley Planning Commission, and perhaps the greatest champion of rail service in the region, agreed. He and the region’s mayors have taken their case to the state — more specifically, Transportation Secretary Stephanie Pollack. In a letter sent a few weeks ago, they seek help in two specific areas: first, with creation of a pilot program that would expand the north-south service to at least five trips a day, through the use of surplus, reconditioned MBTA locomotives and coaches, and second, with development of a business plan for the ongoing operation of the service beyond the initial pilot phase.

...

One of the wiser political moves of the now-gone Patrick administration was to combine folding the MBTA into MassDOT and also producing the Knowledge Corridor. The T would no longer be an eastern Massachusetts issue that was an isolated budget line and was no longer not serving at least part of western Massachusetts. That double-stroke made it more difficult for members of the Great and General Court -- especially ones from western parts of the Commonwealth -- to vote against things MBTA. In its too-finite wisdom, that selfsame Great and General Court had taken a long starvation approach to all things T when it was budget time, and the results -- both last winter and this -- have made the T a problem of the Baker administration. No matter her expertise and/or her desire to do the right things for expanded service, Secretary Pollack has become a manager of crises and not of expansion. Given the issues revolving around possible/probable fare increases and possible/probable Green Line Expansion cancellation, it's more probable that there will be a hold on expanding service in the Connecticut River Valley. Yes, there will be one more study about a North-South Rail-Link for Boston, but projects die the death of a thousand paper cuts, and killing a project needed for the benefit of eastern Massachusetts can serve as pretext for killing a project needed for the benefit of western Massachusetts.

Yet another piece in the media in Western Mass on this topic. The re-routing the Vermonter sure has kicked off another level of advocacy and rail YIMBYism.

There's not too much that would be news to regular followers of this issue, but there is this:

Indeed, expansion of the New Haven-Hartford-Springfield service, which will bring another 12 trains a day into the City of Homes, should be completed by year’s end.

Talks are underway with the Connecticut Department of Transportation about taking some of those trains farther north, and the matter is being taken under advisement, he noted.
“They’re interested in doing that. They would want us to pay our fair share, but they are keeping that option open.”

The other option for expanding north-south service — deploying surplus MBTA equipment on that route — was promoted in a Jan. 29 letter to Pollack, which seeks creation of a pilot program that will reveal potential usage.

Clearly they missed the memo on NHHS commuter rail being delayed until 2018, but I'm glad to hear news of talks between CTDOT and...at least someone in MA. Not sure if MassDOT is involved or just the quoted guy's organization (Pioneer Valley Planning Commission). Running trains deemed too crappy for even the MBTA as a connecting service to NHHS in Springfield is definitely not the best long-term solution.

Balerion wrote:Running trains deemed too crappy for even the MBTA as a connecting service to NHHS in Springfield is definitely not the best long-term solution.

They weren't deemed "too crappy", the were deemed surplus when new higher capacity equipment was brought in. Why do you think they're being stored rather than cut up?

Nice article...I think you'll see more commuter rails and light rails. I'd love to see a few trains on the CT River line. Hope on a train in Hartford in the morning, get off in Northampton and bike the old MassCentral bike trail, then hop on a train to Hartford.

Given the resources supposedly allocated for the commuter train if one was honest here, those funds would be far better spent on a commuter service between greenfield and boston. there is virtually no as an zero possibility for meaningful traffic from greenfield to and from springfield and points in between. there is however much interest in northern western mass to be able to access cambridge and north station with its connections for maine. and by the same token vermont is begging for boston to vermont service. the cost and possibility of greenfield to boston is not only cheaper but it also would be quicker for folks coming from northern western mass and vermont to boston. at least one half hour quicker than it would be through springfield. that saving of 30 minutes time as you may recall was the pretext of the justification for spending the 70 million to move the train back necr to pas. while i realize that everyone high up in the political food chain has high hopes for inland amtrak, connecticut, and southern western mass want commuter service via springfield to boston, until someone figures out the economic solution to the framingham safety and infrastructure bottleneck, expanded commuter service from springfield to boston is a long way off.

The cars and engines stored at Seaview are worn out,waiting for a RFP for scrapping to be created,
there might be a very few that can be rebuilt for use at a great amount of $$$$$
That doesn't count the MPI "rentals",the ex-MARC units,waiting for a waybill home from
the "remains" of MBCR operation.

Believe a few of the "worst" have been cut up near BET already

The Pioneer Valley thread could be rolled into this one.

Safetee wrote:Given the resources supposedly allocated for the commuter train if one was honest here, those funds would be far better spent on a commuter service between greenfield and boston. there is virtually no as an zero possibility for meaningful traffic from greenfield to and from springfield and points in between. there is however much interest in northern western mass to be able to access cambridge and north station with its connections for maine. and by the same token vermont is begging for boston to vermont service. the cost and possibility of greenfield to boston is not only cheaper but it also would be quicker for folks coming from northern western mass and vermont to boston. at least one half hour quicker than it would be through springfield. that saving of 30 minutes time as you may recall was the pretext of the justification for spending the 70 million to move the train back necr to pas. while i realize that everyone high up in the political food chain has high hopes for inland amtrak, connecticut, and southern western mass want commuter service via springfield to boston, until someone figures out the economic solution to the framingham safety and infrastructure bottleneck, expanded commuter service from springfield to boston is a long way off.

Thing is, in the B&A and the Conn River, you have lines that host daily passenger service right now. The Fitchburg west of Gardner, on the other hand, hasn't seen a regularly-scheduled passenger train in over 55 years. Going to cost a heck of a lot more money to get that up and running.

i would wager that the amount to fix the much better condition freight main that has enjoyed the generosity of the black pony for the last several years is in infinitely better shape than the conn river was. saying that the distance from northfield to spring is about the same as greenfield to fitchburg, roughly 50 mi, and that the condition of the freight is twice as good as the conn, i come up with a 35 million dollar job which ns could match for a few mill and we're off to the races.

Rockingham Racer wrote:The Pioneer Valley thread could be rolled into this one.

Done. Had no idea that this area was known by that moniker until I searched gooGley, or I'd have searched that in our index! If at some point an operator is identified, we'll place it in that forum.