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Discussion relating to the past and present operations of the NYC Subway, PATH, and Staten Island Railway (SIRT).

Moderator: GirlOnTheTrain

 #180063  by Steve F45
 
Does the PANYNJ give out anykind of photo permit whatsoever? Im curious not just for the trains but if im near any pa property i wont get in trouble when/if im taking pics.
 #180882  by Allan
 
It is for PATH but would generally apply to all PANYNJ facilities.

www.pathrail.com/path/complete_pathrules
IX. Photography and similar activity.

A. The taking or making of photographs of any portion of the PATH system is prohibited except as provided herein.

B. The taking or making of films, video recordings, and drawings or other visual depictions are subject to the same prohibitions, restrictions and procedures as are applicable to photography.

C. Photography which involves any of the following must comply with the requirements of the Extended Photography Policy and Procedures, in addition to these Rules:

1. Exclusive use of any area or any railcar or part of a railcar.

2. Exclusion of members of the public, PATH or Port Authority personnel, or PATH or Port Authority contractors from any area or any railcar or part of a railcar.

3. Use of equipment other than handheld equipment with self-contained power sources.

D. 1. No person may take a photograph of any portion of the PATH system unless he or she is accompanied by a representative of PATH.

2. No photograph shall be taken of any specific location, device or structure if such representative advises that such photography is prohibited because it will create an image which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof. If possible, a suggestion for alternative photography in PATH which would not have such an effect shall be made by the PATH representative.

3. A photographer and all members of his or her party shall follow the directions of such representative made for the purpose of preventing unreasonable interference with PATH operations, maintenance and construction, and to preserve the health and safety of the photographer or others.

4. A photographer may protest any direction made pursuant to paragraph (2) or (3) in the same manner as an appeal from the denial of a permit as set forth herein.

E. No person may take any photograph within PATH unless he or she has been issued a permit therefore by PATH as set forth herein.

1. A permit application shall be submitted in writing no later than thirty-six (36) hours preceding the commencement of the activities for which the permit is sought, and no earlier than seven (7) days preceding the commencement of the activities for which the permit is sought.

2. Permit application shall be submitted in person to the PATH Permit Administrator, or the designee thereof, during the hours of 9:00 AM to 10:30 AM and 1:30 PM to 3:30 PM, Monday through Friday, excluding holidays.

3. The permit application shall set forth the type, time, location and duration of activities to be conducted, and the name, address and telephone number of the person making the request (in the case of a group, it shall be sufficient to supply the name, address, and telephone number of the person who can be contacted if problems arise concerning the granting of the request). If a person making the application indicates an affiliation with an organization or group, the name and address of a local representative of the organization or group to act as a liaison will be requested; however, refusal to provide such information shall not be grounds for denial of a permit.

4. Permits will be granted on a first-come, first serve basis depending on the availability of escorts. An application will be denied in whole or in part only if: (a) the presence of visitors in a requested location would unreasonably interfere with PATH operations, maintenance and construction; (b) if the conduct cannot be performed without creating an image which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof; (c) if the location requested may not be visited safely by persons other than PATH or other operation, construction or maintenance personnel; (d) the application is incomplete; or, (e) the application discloses that the activities to be performed thereunder will violate these Rules.

5. A permit will be issued, or the application denied, by the PATH Permit Administrator or a designee thereof, no later than 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the application, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH. The reason for the denial of an application or any part thereof shall be set forth in writing.

6. (a) Upon the denial of any application for a permit, or the failure to issue a
permit by 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the application, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH, the applicant may submit a written appeal to the PATH General Manager, or a designee thereof, setting forth the reasons why the application should be granted.

(b) An appeal shall be submitted in person to the PATH Permit Administrator, or a designee thereof, during the hours of 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM, Monday through Friday, excluding holidays. The PATH Permit Administrator, or the designee thereof, shall cause the appeal to be delivered to the General Manager, or a designee thereof.

7. A written decision denying the appeal, or issuing a permit, shall be made no later than 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the appeal, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH. If no decision is issued by 5:00 PM of the day following submission of the appeal, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and holidays recognized by PATH, the appeal shall be deemed to be denied on the basis of the original decision denying the application.

8. A decision made in response to an application for a permit or an appeal of a denial of a permit shall not disclose information which could be used to aid in the planning of an attempt to disable, destroy, avoid or circumvent any operational, safety, security, evacuation or emergency response device, structure or procedure, or which could be used in the planning of an attempt to commit an act of violence or intentionally cause disruption of rail service or a public panic within the PATH system or a part thereof.

9. Any person whose application for a permit has been denied may seek review of the final decision denying such application in a proceeding commenced pursuant to Article 78 of the Civil Practice Laws and Rules of the State of New York, or action in lieu of prerogative writ in the courts of the State of New Jersey.

10. The General Manager of PATH, or in his or her absence, the person designated to act in his or her stead for general management purposes, may withdraw or suspend a permit for photography in the event of, and during the pendency of, an emergency condition such as a snowstorm, fire, accident, power failure, transportation carrier schedule interruption, or other condition of such nature and character that the conduct of permitted activities would cause a danger to persons or property during the pendency of such emergency condition.

11. For the purpose of this regulation, “holidays” refers to the days set forth in VII (D) (13) above.

 #181007  by Steve F45
 
so pretty much i shouldn't even bother applying. I dont want someone following me around. and its only good for a few days?

I dont even want the permit just for path. I'de like to be able to go near the GWB to get some nice night shots without security harassing me.

 #181653  by Terrapin Station
 
2005Vdub wrote:I dont even want the permit just for PATH. I'd like to be able to go near the GWB to get some nice night shots without security harassing me.
There is no way you can totally prevent security from harassing you. In this day and age, if you want to be a photographer, you have to accept that you will be harassed, no matter how much "permission" you have.

That said, there is NOTHING illegal about taking photos of PANYNJ facilities from public property. As long as you are not on the GWB itself or the surrounding PANYNJ property, then you are 100% in your right to take photos of the GWB. Sure they might harass you, but you'll be in the right, and that is a good advantage to have.
Last edited by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

 #181728  by Steve F45
 
Well here's the thing. I do not know if the palisades interstate park is owned by the PANYNJ or someone else. I mean i was on a road leading down along the river with camera not ever out, just holding my tripod when security threatened me.

maybe i'll call parkway police/commision to see if they have some kind of permit.


but back on topic. PANYNJ, does not issure general permits do they?

 #181763  by Terrapin Station
 
2005Vdub wrote:Well here's the thing. I do not know if the palisades interstate park is owned by the PANYNJ or someone else. I mean i was on a road leading down along the river with camera not ever out, just holding my tripod when security threatened me.

maybe i'll call parkway police/commision to see if they have some kind of permit.
It says HERE that permits are only needed for commercial photography. If you are an amateur photographer, you can either:
1. Do what it takes to get a commercial permit (incl. pay $$$ and abide by restrictive rules)
2. Go out and take photos and if you get unjustly harassed by security, just pack it up and leave
3. Go out and take photos and if you get unjustly harassed by security, politely but firmly stand your ground knowing you are doing nothing wrong, even if your case eventually winds up in court.
2005Vdub wrote:but back on topic. PANYNJ, does not issure general permits do they?
I doubt it, but you'd have to call them. And again, a permit from the PANYNJ is worthless if you are not photographing on PANYNJ property.

 #181879  by arrow
 
3. Go out and take photos and if you get unjustly harassed by security, politely but firmly stand your ground knowing you are doing nothing wrong, even if your case eventually winds up in court.
Is it really worth getting arrested over?

 #181953  by Steve F45
 
well i'll find out if the palisades interstate park is public property or not. If its not then i have every right to take pics correct?

 #182744  by Ken W2KB
 
It's a commission run facility. As such, it may have a rule with respect to photography from its property, though the post above that has a link to the regs appears to limit only commercial photography, that is, where the photos may be sold or used to further a business interest.

Note that even photography from a public street can be restricted if it creates a safety hazard, etc.

 #182783  by Steve F45
 
Well if i decide to go, i may call the papd at the gwb and just find out if i can be allowed even with somekind of supervision. There is a spot on the cliffs for great photography of the bridge at night, which is what i want.
 #189556  by Lackawanna484
 
Allan wrote:It is for PATH but would generally apply to all PANYNJ facilities.

www.pathrail.com/path/complete_pathrules
IX. Photography and similar activity.


2. Permit application shall be submitted in person to the PATH Permit Administrator, or the designee thereof, during the hours of 9:00 AM to 10:30 AM and 1:30 PM to 3:30 PM, Monday through Friday, excluding holidays.....

11. For the purpose of this regulation, “holidays” refers to the days set forth in VII (D) (13) above.
9 am to 330pm, with a three hour break for lunch. And, a government job, to boot.

I knew I went into the wrong line of work. :-D

 #258054  by umtrr-author
 
Few hours, plus in person only, plus must submit more than 36 hours but less than 7 days from the event, equals very few permits.

Spell it "p r e v e n t"...

How to stop someone from having a camera on Newark Avenue or Broadway, say at about West Side Avenue, and just happening to be pointing it at PATH Trains is not clear to me... I suppose the local police could be deployed in a pinch.

One of the interesting things called out is that you can't have people in the picture, including PA personnel. Privacy and perhaps liability protection. What about model releases... ah, never mind, chances are we'd just want the equipment anyway.

 #259629  by The Workers
 
You can take pictures from public property, but not Port Authority property. The same goes for photographing PA personnel. Stick to equippment photos. However, if you ask nicely, I might pose for you! :wink: