PATH long-term weekend service change

PATH will be making a major change in weekend service starting on April 9, 2006.

To accomodate long term construction at the WTC site the Hoboken-WTC service on Saturday, Sunday and Holidays will be discontinued.

Journal Square - 33rd St via Hoboken service that normally operates only during late night/overnight hours will run operate at all times during the weekend.

Passengers in Hoboken and Jersey City (Pavonia/Newport) will have to take the Journal Square bound train to Grove Street and change across the platform for the WTC train coming from Newark.

Will passengers coming in from 33, 23, 14, 9, or Christopher have a direct train to Journal Square or will there only be the one going via Hoboken to Journal Square? If there's only the one, I can't even imagine the overcrowding that they're going to have.

arrow wrote:Will passengers coming in from 33, 23, 14, 9, or Christopher have a direct train to Journal Square or will there only be the one going via Hoboken to Journal Square? If there's only the one, I can't even imagine the overcrowding that they're going to have.

There will be no direct JSQ service during those hours. All JSQ/33rd St trains will go to Hoboken first and then go to 33rd St or Journal Square as applicable.

Thinking back to when this was the regular weekend service pattern through the mid-1990's the trains were rather crowded but not necessarily rush hour crowded. But it depends on the time of day. People will complain but they will get used to it.

Allan wrote:There will be no direct JSQ service during those hours. All JSQ/33rd St trains will go to Hoboken first and then go to 33rd St or Journal Square as applicable.

People will complain but they will get used to it.

No time like thr present to resurrect an old post.

I had the opportunity to ride PATH this weekend. The last time I rode PATH was just after the opening of the HBLRT initial operating segment.

Operating JSQ / 33rd via Hoboken dueing daylight hours is not providing good service. 10 minute headways on Saturday makes for uncomfortable (and unnecessary) overcrowding. The conditions were virtually identical at 9:30 AM (to NYC) and 6:30 PM (from NYC)

Questions I have include:

1)Is WTC or 33rd street a more desirable destination for a third, Hoboken originating service that would allow through operation of JSQ / 33rd trains on the weekend?

2)Why does the 10 minute headway start so late in the morning on weekends?

3) Why does the local population using PATH on a regular basis tolerate this level of service?

Bill R. wrote:

Allan wrote:There will be no direct JSQ service during those hours. All JSQ/33rd St trains will go to Hoboken first and then go to 33rd St or Journal Square as applicable.

People will complain but they will get used to it.

No time like thr present to resurrect an old post.

I had the opportunity to ride PATH this weekend. The last time I rode PATH was just after the opening of the HBLRT initial operating segment.

Operating JSQ / 33rd via Hoboken dueing daylight hours is not providing good service. 10 minute headways on Saturday makes for uncomfortable (and unnecessary) overcrowding. The conditions were virtually identical at 9:30 AM (to NYC) and 6:30 PM (from NYC)

Questions I have include:

1)Is WTC or 33rd street a more desirable destination for a third, Hoboken originating service that would allow through operation of JSQ / 33rd trains on the weekend?

2)Why does the 10 minute headway start so late in the morning on weekends?

3) Why does the local population using PATH on a regular basis tolerate this level of service?

1) A few years back there was a direct Hoboken-33rd St service on weekends. It was discontinued, as indicated in my 2006 posting, as part of the WTC reconstruction. They can get more work done with less trains running in the area. But it was also used by by the PA as an excuse to save money.

2) the 10 minute headway starts in the evening not the morning (I am looking at the latest timetable as I write this). The Saturday 10 minute headway starts 7:19 PM and goes to 11:20 PM when it goes back to 15 minute headways (it starts at 6:57 PM on Sunday and goes to 20 minutes at 10:50 PM).
- perhaps they (the PA) feel that there are more people traveling back from Manhattan to NJ during that time so more frequent service is needed. Yet they feel that 15 minute headways are fine in the earlier hours.

3) Given that local NJ Transit bus service from NJ to Manhattan is more expensive, takes longer and runs less often, people really don't have a choice but to take what the PA dishes out. The PA is not that concerned that it may be an inconvenience to riders. You could say that in many ways - PATH is the only game in town so people have to play by the PA rules.

WTC is not the only large construction project going on. The ATC installation is happening slowly but surely, which involves a fair amount of single tracking in spots on weekends in order to give work crews the space they need. Before weekend service was reduced,extended work in the tunnels was a nightmare because work crews would only have overnight hours. The weekend closures allow for maintenance to be done much faster.

To the person who asked what a 3rd service should be if only one could be implemented, it should be HOB-WTC because a HOB-33rd with no HOB-WTC would involve expecting people to transfer at Christopher St., which is a nightmare waiting to happen given the restricted layout of the station.

M&Eman wrote:........

To the person who asked what a 3rd service should be if only one could be implemented, it should be HOB-WTC because a HOB-33rd with no HOB-WTC would involve expecting people to transfer at Christopher St., which is a nightmare waiting to happen given the restricted layout of the station.

There is weekday HOB-WTC service. On late nights and weekends people from Hoboken would not have to come into Christopher St only to have to back to NJ. They simply take the JSQ via HOB train to Grove St and go across the platform for the NWK-WTC train.

Allan wrote:

M&Eman wrote:........

To the person who asked what a 3rd service should be if only one could be implemented, it should be HOB-WTC because a HOB-33rd with no HOB-WTC would involve expecting people to transfer at Christopher St., which is a nightmare waiting to happen given the restricted layout of the station.

There is weekday HOB-WTC service. On late nights and weekends people from Hoboken would not have to come into Christopher St only to have to back to NJ. They simply take the JSQ via HOB train to Grove St and go across the platform for the NWK-WTC train.

We are talking about late nights and weekends if hypothetically a third late/weekend service was instituted so JSQ-33rd trains could bypass Hoboken.

M&Eman wrote:We are talking about late nights and weekends if hypothetically a third late/weekend service was instituted so JSQ-33rd trains could bypass Hoboken.

I was thinking about weekend daytime service when I posed the question. Making Jersey City riders absorb 5 minutes of travel time via Hoboken seems to benefit few while being very inconvenient for many, to say the least.

Hoboken - 33rd seems like the better choice for a third service because HBLRT provides access to Jersey City locations. Plus, If you really needed to get to WTC on the weekend, you can change to the NYC subway @ 14th Street/6th Avenue or to Newark-WTC service at Exchange Place.

I've got to imagine it's more than 5 mins too.

It's about 10-12 minutes from caisson to Hoboken and back including dwell time at Hoboken on those trains.

Since it has not yet been stated on these forums, you may or may not be aware that beginning this weekend, PATH will not be operating to World Trade Center or Exchange Place for most weekends into 2015. They still for some reason think that running trains from NWK to JSQ then requiring passengers to transfer there to a train that has to change directions in Hoboken is a good idea. They are adding an enormous amount of travel time to the riders who want to come from Newark or Harrison, as that transfer in Journal Square, while "across the platform" is not very speedy.

I would argue that running trains from NWK-33RD and HOB-33RD during the outages would be best, since it would speed things up for everyone during the outage.

Word is that next year PATH will be closing the upper Hudson Tubes (and thus service from NJ to Sixth Avenue) for a similar period of time. Who knows what ridiculous plan they're going to concoct for those weekends.

Direct PATH service between Newark Penn Station and Midtown, Manhattan, will probably not occur because NJ Transit does not want this type of service competing with their direct train service between Newark Penn Station and Penn Station.

How could NJ Transit regulate PATH service? The absence of direct service from Newark to 33rd St. goes back to PRR days when passengers who detrained at Newark wanted to go to lower Manhattan and those destined to Midtown simply stayed on the train. It does seem weird that PATH isn't going to run direct service to 33rd St. -- albeit via Hoboken -- since trains to Journal Square aren't going to WTC anyway. It just seems to me like a lot of pointless jockeying around at JSQ.

Thomas wrote:Direct PATH service between Newark Penn Station and Midtown, Manhattan, will probably not occur because NJ Transit does not want this type of service competing with their direct train service between Newark Penn Station and Penn Station.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

lirr42 wrote:Since it has not yet been stated on these forums, you may or may not be aware that beginning this weekend, PATH will not be operating to World Trade Center or Exchange Place for most weekends into 2015. They still for some reason think that running trains from NWK to JSQ then requiring passengers to transfer there to a train that has to change directions in Hoboken is a good idea. They are adding an enormous amount of travel time to the riders who want to come from Newark or Harrison, as that transfer in Journal Square, while "across the platform" is not very speedy.

I would argue that running trains from NWK-33RD and HOB-33RD during the outages would be best, since it would speed things up for everyone during the outage.

Word is that next year PATH will be closing the upper Hudson Tubes (and thus service from NJ to Sixth Avenue) for a similar period of time. Who knows what ridiculous plan they're going to concoct for those weekends.

I think the best idea would be nwk-33rd fr PATH, and run more frequent newark light rail broad street station link trains so people can also get a midtown direct train at newark broad or hoboken & do ferry/PATH. Also, how are people that use HBLR and PATH going to get around if EXP is closed? More HBLR trains too on the bayonne-hoboken line?

I've spent massive hours and countless trips in this area over the years, including to/from airport, and i can say now, that this is going to really make all ready sardine can packed peak trains slower dwell times, and platforms very crowded. Lets hope that new signal system is in place and live to reduce those headways, and operations folks/PAPD at stations to monitor crowding.