Passengers stranded on MARC train for hours

If it was a matter of sending a non HEP Loco out and rescuing the train or waiting possibly for hours for an HEP equipped loco to become available, what would you rather have?

I would not want a locomotive without HEP. I would rather have a dozen buses with working air conditioners-heaters show up instead. Don't get fixated just on trains. Try focusing on the PASSENGERS health and comfort first.

You can read about buses coming to Amtrak's rescue all over the country all the time, EXCEPT for broken down trains on the Northeast Corridor. Why can Amtrak easily get buses without much notice elsewhere, but not on it's busiest corridor?

electricron wrote:

If it was a matter of sending a non HEP Loco out and rescuing the train or waiting possibly for hours for an HEP equipped loco to become available, what would you rather have?

I would not want a locomotive without HEP. I would rather have a dozen buses with working air conditioners-heaters show up instead. Don't get fixated just on trains. Try focusing on the PASSENGERS health and comfort first.

You can read about buses coming to Amtrak's rescue all over the country all the time, EXCEPT for broken down trains on the Northeast Corridor. Why can Amtrak easily get buses without much notice elsewhere, but not on it's busiest corridor?

Probably because nobody has that many buses to spare on short notice in the Northeast, since they're mostly being used on their own services, unlike elsewhere in the country. And given traffic issues, and other access situations, it is usually faster to get another train to the rescue on the NEC; other areas, there are no other trains to come to the rescue.

electricron wrote:

If it was a matter of sending a non HEP Loco out and rescuing the train or waiting possibly for hours for an HEP equipped loco to become available, what would you rather have?

I would not want a locomotive without HEP. I would rather have a dozen buses with working air conditioners-heaters show up instead. Don't get fixated just on trains. Try focusing on the PASSENGERS health and comfort first.

You can read about buses coming to Amtrak's rescue all over the country all the time, EXCEPT for broken down trains on the Northeast Corridor. Why can Amtrak easily get buses without much notice elsewhere, but not on it's busiest corridor?

You WOULD want a loco without HEP if you were in an inaccessible location. trains don't always break down in locations where you could simply get off and hop onto a nice air conditioned bus. You gotta get to that location first.....

Im not saying replacing the dead loco with a non HEP loco and completing the trip. I mean getting the train moving to a location where 1) passengers can be transferred to another train in a safer manner than train to train out in the middle of the railroad somewhere, or 2) where a loco WITH HEP could be put on or at least a shorter waiting time with facilities for folks, like a major station or near yard facilities/crews/equipmnet, etc.

Not to poo poo other services across the country, but many times, the shear number of folks on the trains on the NEC do not allow for a bus substitution. A dozen busses could probalby hold a train load of folks on some long distance trains, but a majority of NEC trains woudl require many many more than a dozen busses and also getting that many "spare"busses together that quickly and drivers to drive them. Most areas that surround the NEC have bus operators and bus schedules wehre the busses and bus people are doing their thing.......they aren't just sitting around just waiting for something to happen.

Why would you want a rescue loco without HEP? IIRC, the only ones Amtrak has are the switchers and they don't have enough power to pull a full 8 car set.

gp40marc69 wrote:Why would you want a rescue loco without HEP? IIRC, the only ones Amtrak has are the switchers and they don't have enough power to pull a full 8 car set.

Maybe not very quickly, but they could do it. They use those switchers to pull longer drags in yard switching. I'd be happy with whatever they sent as long as it even got us to the nearest point where the passengers could be discharged, be it station, a nearby road, another train, anything.

Silverliner II wrote:I'd be happy with whatever they sent as long as it even got us to the nearest point where the passengers could be discharged, be it station, a nearby road, another train, anything.

I agree. Especially in that area at that hour where a stranded rider has lots of options. Personally I'd have gone to the nearest Dunkin Donuts and -- after I cooled off with a Super Sized Iced Latte -- start dialing friends and family to come pick me up!

It shouldn't have been impossible to have gotten buses to the scene if they had decided to take that step. Especially given the hour, the end of the conventional rush hour. It would've required the cooperation of and coordination with WMATA to reroute or reassign transit buses to an evacuation. Septa has done it on very short notice as have other commuter operators.

Tommy Meehan wrote:It would've required the cooperation of and coordination with WMATA to reroute or reassign transit buses to an evacuation. Septa has done it on very short notice as have other commuter operators.

Does SEPTA operate their busses? The problem with trying that with WMATA is that they're two separate organizations, with no agreements in place for the use of their busses. From that perspective, it would have been easier to use the commuter busses that the MTA runs, but at that point in the day they're all likely out at the end of their runs, far away from DC.

HokieNav wrote: The problem with trying [an evacuation] with WMATA is that they're two separate organizations, with no agreements in place for the use of their busses.

If the problem is MARC has no agreement with WMATA in case of an emergency I think the solution is pretty obvious.

A better example than Septa would be in New York when catenary was damaged on the New Haven Line and Westchester Bee-Line buses were used to bridge the gap. Two totally separate agencies yet the buses were moved in quickly, dispatched by radio. I was on one of the buses and heard the dispatcher moving equipment around.

Btw, I read the MTA report. It was stated that the major problem with the HHP-8 locomotive that failed was the failure of two key components. The #2 Advanced Generic Alstom Traction Electronic (AGATE) "which is one of five computer processors in the propulsion network" and the Remote Input Output Module (RIOM), "the electronic device that regulates power among the four traction motors and the head-end power."

No specific cause could be identified, largely I think because after about three hours the equipment began working again.

The report states, the "most likely cause [for the shutdown] was a combination of high ambient temperatures in the engine compartment and/or a momentary fluctuation in the voltage supplied by [Amtrak on] the overhead catenary system."

Corrective actions include, "more frequent cleaning of the filters and radiators that cool the engine compartment" and a separate project of "upgrading the substations that feed the catenary in the vicinity of Union Station." The substation upgrades are due to be completed next month.

Another action taken is to assign a second locomotive "on large trainsets during extreme weather." That's the kind of thing private railroads did routinely I think. An example would be a New York Central practice of assigning an extra diesel unit to long passenger trains to boost steam heat capacity in extreme cold weather.

Just to give an update on this topic that MACTRAXX pointed me to...

• Schedules were updated. Rush on the Penn line is now every 15-20 min
• Amtrak and MARC have reformed their procedures.
• MARC 68 is now stationed at Amtrak's Odenton Maintenance of Way yard to speed rescues. It gets exercised on the weekends, and sometimes used to rescue freight.