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  • Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
It is currently Mon Dec 02, 2024 8:47 am

Pan Am Worcester Main Line

Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by F74265A
 
Well, I'm liking this rumored version of CSX

If this goes like I think it will, the PW gardner train would have its own track, CSX its own main track, and the PW would have to deal with CSX to come into the new yard area to pick up/drop off their cars to/from Selkirk.

Presumably the extension of the Greendale siding would just be the new CSX 2d track mainline

Am curious if the extended clinton siding would, like in the past, extend south (west) of Sterling st. At one time, Sterling st was completely blocked off and all road traffic had to use the brook st underpass. Due to brook st, a train blocking sterling st is not that big a deal.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by jwhite07
 
New infrastructure and a second main might have prevented the merry-go-round between M427, I022, and WOGR this morning at CP45 which resulted in 427's tail end strung across several grade crossings in downtown Worcester for about 20 minutes... St. Albans not talking to Jacksonville very effectively or what?

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by newpylong
 
taracer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 2:33 pm The P&W interchange would take place in the old B&M yard, and the P&W would pickup and deliver the cars there instead of the Worcester yard crew shoving in and out at CP-45.

The P&W wants any crew shoving into their yard to have 3 hours left to work. That is not possible with a Selkirk crew, so that train sits on the CSX main track 1 until the Worcester yard crew comes on duty. That's usually at least 12 hours later. So, the goal is to have the Selkirk crew bring the train up to the old B&M yard and leave it there for the P&W to get on their timeline, freeing up the CSX main 1 down in Worcester.
Crystal clear now thank you.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by johnpbarlow
 
Perhaps this question has already been discussed many postings ago but is any of this development of a 2nd Worcester main track between CP-45 and Barbers owned/used by CSX necessary to enable double stacked domestic cube containers (eg, through the tunnel under St Vincent's Hospital)?

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by QB 52.32
 
No, Mr. Barlow, the rumored added track is north of any potential overhead obstruction requiring its construction and St. V's was built with enough clearance for full stack. Since the mid-90's that's been a MA regulatory requirement for any new or improved fixed railroad overhead structure.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by bostontrainguy
 
jamoldover wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:37 pm Less value than the cost of putting the connection in and the cost of maintaining it.
That is such a short piece of track it would cost relatively nothing in the scope of what CSX is doing in the area.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by BandA
 
This is pretty neat because you would have a pocket yard fully visible to 290. Having a small turntable is interesting; when is the last time a railroad installed a new turntable? Since this is essentially a new yard, put up lots of cameras & sensors and you have a relatively secure area in an urban location that otherwise could be a problem since it is easily accessible yet nobody is around to notice and keep an eye on.

I assume there was a real railyard there before 290 was built, what with the Washburn & Moen Northworks and heavy industry nearby.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by jamoldover
 
Yes, there was a yard located there both before (and, in fact, after) the highway was built.

It will be interesting to see where a turntable ends up - there have been several different locations (on both the B&A and B&M) where roundhouses have been located at one time or another over the years.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by F74265A
 
I recall seeing tank cars on the east side of 290
I think there was a fuel oil dealer there- Ck smith

Clinton had a turn table at one time

There might have been one in oakdale too on the central ma just west of the wml

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by taracer
 
jwhite07 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 4:43 pm New infrastructure and a second main might have prevented the merry-go-round between M427, I022, and WOGR this morning at CP45 which resulted in 427's tail end strung across several grade crossings in downtown Worcester for about 20 minutes... St. Albans not talking to Jacksonville very effectively or what?
St. Albans does not talk to Jacksonville on these train movement issues, I can assure you of that. All communication concerning train movement is done by the crews, there is no coordination in advance.

As I've said many times before there is no way the current situation can or will last.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by taracer
 
F74265A wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 5:29 pm I recall seeing tank cars on the east side of 290
I think there was a fuel oil dealer there- Ck smith

Clinton had a turn table at one time

There might have been one in oakdale too on the central ma just west of the wml
Ck. Smith is still there, not served by rail of course, but the underpass of I290 is still there.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by BlueFlag
 
Back in May (and as brought to our attention at that time by Mr. Barlow in the B&E forum), NS advised the STB it had trackage rights agreements signed with CSX and Pan Am Southern for the daily intermodal train pair that will run via Voorheesville -- but there was no agreement yet with P&W. Am I right in assuming if the Worcester yard and track work now under way pans out as believed, this would negate the need for any such agreement with P&W?
Full filing: https://dcms-external.s3.amazonaws.com/ ... 308323.pdf

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by QB 52.32
 
Underlying what's presented in this "informed scuttlebutt" and critical within its stated forms, functions and goal is the P&W and what might not be so simple in getting to a deal matching the rumored goal and elements. This goes not only to the costs of new infrastructure but also a deal and in consideration of other options.

Extending the 2nd track to fully separate CSX and P&W movements is probably simplest. Shifting interchange up to North Worcester more complicated. Eliminating (or substantially modifying) CSX's operating rights giving them control, necessary in obviating NS trackage rights with the P&W, most complicated.

In light of what BlueFlag points out and within what taracer has offered points to the likelihood that there's negotiations toward some kind of outcome currently in play and its end form critical to the form this rumor takes.

Lastly, I'll add that I have some healthy skepticism when it comes to adding a turntable in this day-and-age.

Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by johnpbarlow
 
Re: installing a CSX turntable at along the Worcester Main, if this new CSX-P&W interchange yard gets built where the B&M once a had in Worcester, CSX would no longer have to use P&W to wye its power sets, as it did on 7/2/24 when the CSX 911 "1st Responders" unit led both M438 into Worcester and the subsequent M437 to Selkirk.

PS: what is the speed limit for westbound trains coming off P&W onto the CSX B&A main at CP-45 - watching M427 on the live stream cam, it looks to be < 10mph (ie, "restricting" speed?) at least for the locomotives. Given this is now a CSX main line will this be sped up or is the curve too sharp? Is there or will there be a distant signal for southbound trains approaching the CP-45 interlocking?
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Re: Pan Am Worcester Main Line

  by newpylong
 
Now it's Yard Limits ie restricted speed.

Is your speed question hypothetical for if and when CSX controls the second track? I think there are too many unknowns to really make any conclusions as to what operating authority that track will be. If it becomes TWC the P&W would need paper just to get up and interchange in this rebuilt yard. I doubt that curve is good for more than 15 if they have paper.
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