Ontario rethinks High Speed Rail

They are going to consider other options, included buses and highways.

https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/ont ... l-corridor

Is there any possibility of upgrading any of the existing lines to the highest possible speed and widening the ROW where needed rather than trying to ram a new dedicated line through? I see Toronto-Detroit as a major potential HSR line with added frequencies.

Toronto - Detroit I would consider unlikely, the border has just become too much of an issue.

As for the the existing route, too much of it is freight railway that limits the options regarding both electrifying and higher speeds.

My prediction is that the current government will cancel it.

Yet Vancouver and Montreal exist as end points for Amtrak service and both have/will have border formalities completed in station, why couldn't VIA do the same at Detroit? Also, doesn't most of the line run through sparsely populated land? The existing route may have plenty of freight traffic, but if there's space to add a track or two why couldn't VIA just do that rather than trying to build an entirely new ROW previously unused lands?

NIMBYkiller wrote:The existing route may have plenty of freight traffic, but if there's space to add a track or two why couldn't VIA just do that rather than trying to build an entirely new ROW previously unused lands?

The first and most obvious reason is that it wasn't a VIA project, it was a Province of Ontario project.

And while it was never spelled out, given that it was going to be Ontario track, stations, and trains it was obvious that it would have meant the end of VIA all/part of southwestern Ontario eventually.

As for the other issues, you again run up to the fact that the freight railways aren't likely to allow electrification on their right of way - it causes lots of additional issues they simply don't want to deal with.

But I suspect the main issue is that it simply wouldn't achieve the goal in terms of London-Toronto time.

My interpretation is that this was an attempt to ease the pressure off of Toronto/GTA by creating an outlet for the growth Toronto is experiencing by connecting London to Toronto with a very short transit time (in the past this would have been viewed as Nation building/Province building, and somewhat similar to what the British government is attempting with HS2 to link LondonUK with some of the other large cities in England).

Again, new tracks adjacent to the existing ROW. Precedent is already there, passenger rail has its own tracks, freights have theirs.

NIMBYkiller wrote:Again, new tracks adjacent to the existing ROW. Precedent is already there, passenger rail has its own tracks, freights have theirs.

Also again, the much of the existing ROW is the property of CN and they are not going to allow catenary for electric trains on their ROW even if it is adjacent lines for the simple reason that it complicates things.

I also assume the existing ROW is not going to be straight enough for the formerly planned 250km/h (155mph) speeds, not to mention the time savings of having a relatively straight line between stations compared to the existing route I would assume. I would also guess at those speeds you likely also want more space between the tracks, thus making it highly unlikely there is enough space on the existing ROW for both freight and HSR.

Is electrification really necessary? Top-and-tail diesels have been running 125mph service before. Also cuts down on infrastructure costs.

Top and tail isn't necessary for the 125mph - VIA's fleet renewal specified up to 125mph on diesel and Siemens appears to be offering a single loco per train to meet that.

I suspect the issue, in addition to the environmental benefit, was the service was based around meeting certain travel times between stations and they only way to achieve that was with the 155mph speed and a better track alignment.

For now at least the page is still on the provincial website and gives the estimated travel times between stations they were aiming for
https://www.ontario.ca/page/high-speed-rail

mdvle wrote:For now at least the page is still on the provincial website and gives the estimated travel times between stations they were aiming for
https://www.ontario.ca/page/high-speed-rail

In Ontario, we define high speed rail as a system as a rail system that operates at or above 250 km/h on dedicated tracks or at 200 km/h on existing tracks. FYI, 250 km'h = 155 mph, 200 km/h = 124 mph.
Therefore, with the max speeds of diesel electric locomotives being 200 km/h, 250 km/h max speeds will require all electric locomotives.

Ontario's new government delivered their first budget on Thursday and to no surprise all capital funding for High Speed Rail has been eliminated.

https://london.ctvnews.ca/no-high-speed ... -1.4377862

The Wynne government opted for a long-ball Province-only approach when they could have committed money to VIA to speed up higher speed rail, as the US PRIIA States have done. Now we get nothing and the highway tarmac contractors will receive handsome sums to pave over even more green space (and of course there is no sign of a Northlander restart).

So mad at this.

dowlingm wrote:(and of course there is no sign of a Northlander restart)..

The return of the Northlander was brought up a few times during the last election campaign by prominent members of the PC party including party leader Doug Ford and Vic Fedeli, the current Finance Minister, and representative for North Bay, ONR's home.

And although the future of passenger rail service in northeastern Ontario didn’t receive any budget funding, Fedeli said the PCs made the commitment to return it in their first term and intend to live up to that commitment.

https://www.nugget.ca/news/local-news/w ... get-fedeli

So there's still hope.