Oldest Rail Still in Use

Today wasn't the best day to go RR exploring but I did it anyways. Since my previous post last year I've been wanting to explore the GJ switch area to look for the little siding as mentioned on page 1. I was in the area and looking for something to do so I went. I parked the car where the the trestle crosses Buffalo Creek and Indian Church. I walked in from there. Unfortunately, there was too much snow to check all the rails. But one rail stuck out because the time stamp was painted over. The rail was 1902. I dug up a couple of others but got tired of that pretty fast.

I would say at this point that it doesn't count as "still in use" for two reasons. 1st, even though the siding/spur still has a switch to the PRR mainline track, there is a relatively new derailer on it. 2nd, the fencing at the other end into the transfer station has been changed. There is no gate to enter. When the snow melts, I'll go back.

I haven't been up to Tonawanda to check on the Peanut. With todays security concerns and paranoia, the area that I want to check is not very accessable as the jct would be active RR property. I don't like being magnet!

Mr.Starr wrote:I believe that the BUFFALO and SOUTHWESTERN RR Nee- BUFFALO and JAMESTOWN RR was built to a gauge of 6 feet0 inches the B.&S.W. RR eventually leased to the N.Y.L.E. & W.RR which ended up as Erie RR then EL. However I could be mistaken and I'll admit to this mistake..

The Erie main to Dunkirk, as is known, was built 6 foot gauge. The Erie's choice of the 6 foot gauge had more to do with obtaining their original charter and the inability to have direct interchange with roads competing with the Erie Canal than anything else. As for the B&J, B&SW, I think it was built as a standard gauge line originally. One thing that leads me to this is the Dayton Arch (or tunnel that goes under the Erie Dunkirk line). It does not seem to be wide enough to have had a 6 foot gauge line through it. In an article by Bill Burt for the Three Rivers Narrow Gauge Historical Society (Light Iron and Short Ties, Volume X, Number 1, March 1992, Pg 5) he mentions transfer arrangements at Dayton for swapping trucks between the two lines indicating different gauges.

Either way, back to the issue of the age of the rail. The sidings would probably tend to be the oldest rail on the remains of that line due to less usage. As for the "main line" on the hill going west (by the Erie directions) or south (by the physical map directions) out of Gowanda, the rail was changed regularly by the Erie when it was in regular service. In an article in their employee magazine (1958 sometime, I couldn't find the exact issue) it talked of transposing the rail from side to side on average about every 4 years on that hill due to the curves. This would indicate frequent rail changeouts at least on that section.

I really like this thread.

Would it be worth finding the oldest rail still in the ground NOT in use? There's a ton all over in the Jamestown/Chautauqua county area, and no doubt all over the state. I'd love to see what people find there, too. Any takers?

Dave Becker

Count me in.

BSOR Patarak wrote:

Mr.Starr wrote:I believe that the BUFFALO and SOUTHWESTERN RR Nee- BUFFALO and JAMESTOWN RR was built to a gauge of 6 feet0 inches the B.&S.W. RR eventually leased to the N.Y.L.E. & W.RR which ended up as Erie RR then EL. However I could be mistaken and I'll admit to this mistake..

The Erie main to Dunkirk, as is known, was built 6 foot gauge. The Erie's choice of the 6 foot gauge had more to do with obtaining their original charter and the inability to have direct interchange with roads competing with the Erie Canal than anything else. As for the B&J, B&SW, I think it was built as a standard gauge line originally. One thing that leads me to this is the Dayton Arch (or tunnel that goes under the Erie Dunkirk line). It does not seem to be wide enough to have had a 6 foot gauge line through it.

I suspect the Buffalo & Jamestown RR was built as standard guage. Besides the Dayton Arch, the B&J/N&SW roster at http://wnyrails.org/railroads/erie/bsw_home.htm shows the original pair of locomotives on the line surviving into 1896 and 1902 respectively. While that's not concrete evidence per se, I strongly suspect the longevity of those locomotives had something to do with them not being regauged after the Erie converted to standard gauge. BTW, the Erie began t leasing the B&SW in 1880, the same year the Erie mainline was regauged. Coincidence? I think not.

Due to rereading one of my posts from 2004, I found some of my own info that also belongs here. Although, I don't think the siding in question is in use anymore. The siding in discussion below is from the PRR just west of GJ going into an electric transfer station.

"I went down a little bit to check on a siding. It’s an old siding that fed the electrical transfer station. The line goes up to the fence [surrounding the transfer station] and then stops. Currently there is a “bush cutter” sitting on the siding. The original rails appear to be still in place. Most of the rails starting at the main track are stamped as Carnegie 1902. Then the rest are stamped Lackawanna 1922 or higher. I’m not certain but one rail looked like 1889. The rail was rusted and the sun wasn’t hitting it right to give a good contrast. Looks like they pulled some old ties out and replaced them. There is a large pile of old ties near by. Same with the wye the Maine Central boxcars are on. Original rails still in use.

I haven't tried it, but I suspect that doing a chalk rubbing would highlight the date enough to get a picture.

I'll have to try that when I'm in the area. It was 6 years ago the last time I looked at it.

I know this isn't exactly in NY, but it's real close. At the end of the northern branch, just before the line dead ends, (it actually dead ends officially in NY), the rails there say 1925, and one siding right nearby says 1917. (I believe it says Lackawanna 1925, and the same for 1917) I don't know about the 1925 rail, but since the 1917 rail is a siding, I bet that's original. The siding is not in use and is ovgrown in spots with trees and brush, but from what I saw the rails look in good shape.

there is some rail that dates back to the 1800's along the lake in Oswego to the Port Authority. In rough shape but still in use. According to 'Roadster" it takes awhile to travel a mile long section down there. Very slow moving.

jgallaway81 wrote:Up until the renovations (last) summer, the Arcade & Attica was still running on 70# rail stamped 1880.

Someone from up there would have to comment on whether or not that rail has been replaced yet.

I just went up to Norfolk to confirm that the 1887 rails are actually being used. Yes, the rails are almost shiny (well, at least, the rust has been polished). Unless the A&A is known to be using the 1880 rail, Norfolk is the oldest.

Why is that Norwood-Norfolk section still in service? Just to be able to get to the enginehouse at Norfolk (for the main Norwood - Ogendensburg line)?
There also is a gravel pit/quarry about halfway between Norfolk and Norwalk, but it is not obvious from aerial photos that they still get service. JS

pumpers wrote:Why is that Norwood-Norfolk section still in service? Just to be able to get to the enginehouse at Norfolk (for the main Norwood - Ogendensburg line)?

That's a lot of it. There was some talk of getting some outside money to build a new engine house in Ogdensburg, but all fell through. They experimented with receiving some sort of bulk product that the flies really liked (feed?) a few years ago, by building a bottom dump bin over the former N&StL main. Other than that, and the ability to serve the Norfolk paper plant, I know of no customers on the N&StL.

There also is a gravel pit/quarry about halfway between Norfolk and Norwalk, but it is not obvious from aerial photos that they still get service. JS

Hehe. They "sorta" get service. Three hopper cars have been sitting on the east side of the road, where the sidings used to cross the road. VTR replaced a few ties to get them there. On these tracks: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russnelson ... 6528031948

Your pictures remind me of when I walked and explored the Peanut Line in Clarence before they ripped everything up for the trail. Trees and brush and tons of moss were growing everywhere. The ties were extremely rotted with everything imaginable growing from within. I would have explored it more but with the barking dog in the adjoining property, I reversed my direction.

RussNelson wrote:

pumpers wrote:Why is that Norwood-Norfolk section still in service? Just to be able to get to the enginehouse at Norfolk (for the main Norwood - Ogendensburg line)?

That's a lot of it. There was some talk of getting some outside money to build a new engine house in Ogdensburg, but all fell through. They experimented with receiving some sort of bulk product that the flies really liked (feed?) a few years ago, by building a bottom dump bin over the former N&StL main. Other than that, and the ability to serve the Norfolk paper plant, I know of no customers on the N&StL.

I didn't recongize that the Norfolk mill still got service. But if I now look at maps.live.com in birds-eye from the right direction, I can see a few boxcars under a canopy (on the river side of the building).
JS