Obs "Still There"; The View? Well.....

eolesen wrote:Or axed with a replacement order canceled...

I was about (sore-y, abOOt ) to say “Saying the quiet part out loud that we all know”.

However, I got to thinking and I now firmly believe the train will not be going away at all as long as there are tracks for it to run on.

1) When the FRA determined (erroneously or not) that the Amtrak Cascades Talgo Series VI (?) trains contributed to the number of deaths and injuries from the Dec. 2017 Point Defiance Bypass crash, Amtrak just substituted Horizon coaches until new equipment could be delivered; which will now happen in 2026. The trains have continued on and the schedule will be expanded even before the new equipment arrives.

With the VIA Rail Budd Company cars structual problems were first detected in 2020 and then it got bad enough last fall that VIA put the “crumple car” on the rear of all Budd consists. If VIA or Transport Canada wanted an excuse to get rid of a train like the “Canadian” -that unlike the Casacades service is far from an intercity “corridor” route with multiple daily departures between two major metro areas -that would have been *the* PERFECT cop out for them. Yet the train continues on.

2) With the “Canadian” being cancelled indefinitely during the earlier part of COVID many of us here wondered if it would ever come back. It did come back with a 1x weekly train in each direction and now it’s at 2x a week. Not what it once was but it has come back swinging. And from the passenger counts on my trip from January 9th-14th I can tell you it was well patronaged even post-Christmas & New Years holiday season. One passenger told me it was packed to the brim when she went from Toronto to Winnipeg on Dec. 27th. There is absolutely demand for this train.

3) The issue with splitting the train into separate sections is who on earth is going to set up maintenance facilities in Edmonton, Saskatoon, and Winnipeg for series of 3x week coach trains? Having a single train traverse the entire route simplifies the maintenance by having it done only at Vancouver and Toronto with the food and linens replenishing done at Winnipeg. The Vancouver facility was surprisingly large compared to what I thought they would have; VIA also maintains the West Coast Express commuter trains.

4) As for the clientele on the “Canadian” don’t assume it’s all high end tourist groups, retirees, etc. There were quite a few passengers in their 20s and 30s onboard as well (and like myself were likely not exactly “flush with cash” either).

5) And regarding delays my train actually arrived in Toronto over an hour AHEAD of schedule I don’t know if the train previously ran on a 3 night schedule vs the current 4 nights, but if so the additional padding worked in my estimation. And our train was running late at a number of points (including apparently the signal system briefly going down between Vancouver and Kamloops!)

So IMO there is absolutely a viable future for the “Canadian” even if it doesn’t live up to what it once was decades ago.

Well Mr. EDER-5a (that's "New Havenese" for the second order of FL-9's; the "a" because their engine was rated 1800hp instead of 1750 as for the first. They also did not have pantographs so if they got stuck in a GCT dead zone, no choice but to "fire it up" and hope the NH didn't get fined), you were there (on the Canadian) and I haven't been since '65.

At that time, the CN started a "giveaway" (CD$ 65 Roomette & meals: Winnipeg-Vancouver) that CP "grudgingly matched".

My Winnipeg-Vancouver journey on CN #9 Panorama; lv Winnipeg 9A, arr Vancouver 530P 2nd afternoon, or 32.5hr. However for me, the journey had to be truncated as the GN's Winnipeg Limited was two hours late. So it was "catch up" to Saskatoon on Air Canada.

Now if there ever were a commercial aircraft built for flightseeing, it had to be the Vickers Viscount. The day was crystal clear and the FL was maybe 140, so I more or less got to see "fast forward" what I would have from #9.

Return on CP #2 was still nice, even if it had to be raining through the passage of Kicking Horse, but the biggest indignity was in the Diner. The "Faresaver" ticket did include meals, yeah, but meals!!! They were stews, that could aptly be described as "crew hash". None of the menu items CP was famous for - Prime Rib, Lamb Chops, Steaks - were available - even for a surcharge!!! I should have bought a regular ticket and had what I wanted in the Diner.

Now regarding your just completed trip and not one made 58 years ago, (in that same Budd equipment), it is interesting to learn that you had good passenger loads even in the dead of Winter, and as you note your fellow passengers were not all of the "money, what's that?" set.

Finally, since I don't know how far from Toronto was the preceding "regular" stop (from which they cannot leave early), they likely had "slop" in the schedule just as does Amtrak enabling your hour early Toronto arrival. So come Summer, and with fellow passengers carrying Tauck Tours bags and lining up behind the "shepherd with the flag" (if I ever have to travel about like that, I'll just stop travel except between the porch and my room at the nursing home), will the CN lay down their railroad for the benefit of VIA? Time will tell.

With due respect Mr. Norman, I think your memory is playing tricks with you. I made several trips on the CPR Canadian during the CPR Faresaver era (and since). I can assure you that :

1. The only surcharge from the table d’hôtel menu was the multi-course steak dinner. It was $1.50.
2. The regular menu was not confined to “crew chow” at all, and included the transitional CPR favourites that you mention.

The CPR incidentally had an all inclusive fare plan long before the introduction of the Faresaver Plan in 1963 in response to CN’s Red, White, and Blue fares. The surcharge for steak was longstanding.

Are you sure you were not riding in a Tourist sleeper? The all inclusive fares covered meals in the Skyline coffee shop car, not the diner. The U series heavyweights were retired at the end of the 1965 peak season, and Tourist fares were discontinued.

Mr. Dayliner, I GUARANTEE you I was not riding in one of the heavyweight, but Stainless sheathed, Tourist Sleepers that were placed on the head. I was in a Duplex.

Now so far as the Dining, if they had offered a steak for a surcharge, I would have "bit".

A further thought; could an empty container flat car provide the rear end "crumple" protection the Canadian safety regulation agency requires? If so, passengers could still have their view from the Obs - and VIA Rail would have additional equipment available for revenue service.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:A further thought; could an empty container flat car provide the rear end "crumple" protection the Canadian safety regulation agency requires? If so, passengers could still have their view from the Obs - and VIA Rail would have additional equipment available for revenue service.

I kept meaning to respond to this, but “reasons”

Anywho, I doubt a flat car could adequately absorb the impact that the “crumple car” can do.

And to be honest depending on the speed of the approaching train if even just a single locomotive were to plow into the “crumple car” would it not continue to plow through to the Park Car? If they’re *that* rotted away I wouldn’t rule it out entirely. Though I hope VIA would add more “crumple cars” to the rear of each Budd consist if it was necessary; I would think they have enough spare Budd Co. cars sitting around/in rotation for that.

Well, Bob Johnston in March TRAINS sure "has done a number" on VIA. While Kalmbach has "since The Beginning" carefully protected their copyrighted material, and I realize that TRAINS is not quite "The Bible" it was back when I was more the railfan fifty years ago than I am today, try to locate this article and read.

It's "not exactly" optimistic.

Oh, but he does acknowledge their superior on-board service product; not too much else.

I was thinking VIA was placing baggage cars behind the Park cars today to provide that crumple zone protection.
Does it block the view? Only if you were looking directly behind the train from the Park's car lounge area. For better views all around, use the dome deck atop the Park car. Much ado about nothing. Safety requirements and rules should not be dished as much as they are in rail fan forums.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 8:08 am Return on CP #2 was still nice, even if it had to be raining through the passage of Kicking Horse, but the biggest indignity was in the Diner. The "Faresaver" ticket did include meals, yeah, but meals!!! They were stews, that could aptly be described as "crew hash". None of the menu items CP was famous for - Prime Rib, Lamb Chops, Steaks - were available - even for a surcharge!!! I should have bought a regular ticket and had what I wanted in the Diner.

Off the rails and on the water, I DID get to sample CP's excellent Prime Rib, and if I recall properly, Yorkshire Pudding to go with, during '74 on the Princess Margaret, Victoria to Seattle. This was when CP still operated the vessel.

August TRAINS reports that the rail safety agency, Transport Canada, has rescinded their order for buffer cars on "The Canadian". The "-- Park" Obs is now the rear most car in the consist, and open to whomever is forking over the Gazillion Loonies "to belong".

eolesen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:57 pm I've been watching reruns of Highway Thru Hell (think Ice Road Truckers meets Tow Trucks), and it takes place along the Fraser Canyon and Coquihalla Highway which goes between Vancouver and Kamloops. Spectacular views indeed.

Was a great show! Still kicking myself for not buying a Jamie Davis Motor sweater while he was selling them.

electricron wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 7:24 pm I was thinking VIA was placing baggage cars behind the Park cars today to provide that crumple zone protection.
Does it block the view? Only if you were looking directly behind the train from the Park's car lounge area. For better views all around, use the dome deck atop the Park car. Much ado about nothing. Safety requirements and rules should not be dished as much as they are in rail fan forums.

Ron is right, the view straight out the back of the Park car is obstructed, but as you can see in the pic below, you have windows about the size of an Amfleet, the seats are aimed inward, and the lighting makes it hard to see out except in bright sun.



If you want the killer view, bottom line you have to go into the dome above, and the buffer car didnt do much to obstruct anything. Of course this no-harm-no-foul analysis clashes with my inner monologue faulting some busybody government employee that doesn't know a train from a wheelbarrow and clearly hasn't read their history. When is the last time a passenger train was hit from behind and hurt people? Now compare that with side-strikes like when the dump truck hit the California Zephyr and exploded in a ball of fire, or when Metro North hit a mercedes and exploded in a ball of fire. Both incidents are far more likely and we never see buffers on the side or the front...

Anyway enjoy some dome pics I took west of Edmonton in 2017.