NYSW's SD45s

Back in 1993 (I believe it was) NYSW sold the majority of their SD45s along with F45 3638 to MRL. Does anyone know what the reasoning was behind this? Why those units were selected as opposed to the ones they kept and why they sold that much of their fleet away? My guess is that it fell along the same lines as the return of the majority of thier B40s to CSX, and that was because they no longer carried out the old D&H's operations anymore? Thanks for any information on the topic.

Main reason they got rid of most of the "45's" was due to the 20 cylinder engines being fuel hogs plus the fact that the GE loaners went back to CSX due to the fact that the stack trains were history after the Conrail breakup.

ladder2 wrote:Main reason they got rid of most of the "45's" was due to the 20 cylinder engines being fuel hogs plus the fact that the GE loaners went back to CSX due to the fact that the stack trains were history after the Conrail breakup.

Thanks, do you know if they had preferences in terms of keeping certain units and selling others (for example, why keep 3636 and get rid of 3638?).

Only a guess but I would assume that the ones they kept(SD 45's) were in better overall condition, than the ones sent to MRL. Strange thing though is why did they keep the 45's and lease out brand new SD 70's and kept them off home rails until they came "home" falling apart. Maybe somebody who works for the NYSW could answer the above.

The units that were sold were in some cases out of service or inoperable, or had never been overhauled after purchase from BN. The ones that were kept were for the most part units overhauled either in-house or at Rome Locomotive Works.

The NYS&W needed fewer units at this point because they were no longer operating the D&H - I think some of them may have been purchased with the ultimate goal of being awarded ownership of the D&H, or just plain because they were old and worn and the idea was to overpower trains enough that if one or two died enroute a train would still make it to it's destination without delays. Remember, too, Walter's reaction to not getting the D&H was to badger Onondaga County into letting him take over the rest of the DL&W up to Solvay so he could take his stack trains off the D&H Tier rights and interchange them in Syracuse - by then they were running Conrail into Buffalo since CSX sold off the remainder of the BR&P some time before. I would imagine that resulted in needing fewer overall locomotives as well.

I think the SD70s wound up leased out because they were different, they were purchased for a later stack train service via CP/the Tier and NS which became redundant with the Conrail break-up. As new units in good shape they'd bring more income leased elsewhere than old junk SD45s would. In fact I think they were noted as tacked onto the end of an NS locomotive order and financed by NS, some reports had them going to NS if the NYS&W decided to sell them off.

The GE units were financed by CSX, which is why they went to CSX. D&H's former Reading GP39-2 fleet also went to CSX to repay horsepower hours of units used during the NYS&W operation period. (Guilford transferred D&H's original GP39-2's to the B&M before letting the road go).

The first 4 B-40s stayed with the NYS&W until their 15 year lease was up. All the other B-40s that were obtained to help run the D&H went to CSX when D&H went to CP.

cjvrr wrote:The first 4 B-40s stayed with the NYS&W until their 15 year lease was up. All the other B-40s that were obtained to help run the D&H went to CSX when D&H went to CP.

I'm glad you brought this up because I have a question about the B40s as well. Was there some significance towards the first four units of their twenty-four unit purchase as to why they kept the first four for much longer than they did with the other twenty? Was there a different contract with CSX towards the first four units than the other twenty? Also, when they all were purchased, was CSX the owner of all the B40s? Thanks for everyone's input thus far.

I thought someone else would answer, but following Chris's note, the 40's were obtained in two separate transactions. The first four were tag-along orders to GE as they were building a larger order of this model for Conrail. The order for these four came from NYSW and whatever financing organization directly. The larger following order was financed by CSX, with the expectation that there was some risk assuming NYSW would continue to operate D&H after the mandated period.

The lease-out of the SD 70's as opposed to the 40's probably was simple economics... the SD 70's returned more cash on a lease than the equivalent value of the 40's. The 4-axle 40's were state of the art for intermodal trains for a very short time, while the 6 axle 70's eventually became the staple locomotive for diversified operations for years. At the time of the lease, the 70's were also relatively new, the 40's had significantly more years and running hours logged.

RichM wrote:The order for these four came from NYSW and whatever financing organization directly.

Then why did they return these in 2003 to CSX if NYSW owned them, or where they directly sold to P&W through NYSW?

Sid Farkus wrote:

RichM wrote:The order for these four came from NYSW and whatever financing organization directly.

Then why did they return these in 2003 to CSX if NYSW owned them, or where they directly sold to P&W through NYSW?

The first 4 B-40s were not returned to CSX. They sat on the NYS&W property in and around Binghamton for 6 months or more after the 15 year period ended. They were then shopped and sent to the P&W.

It all comes down to the bean counters at NYS&W. By 2003 the B-40s were the only GEs on the roster and other than the last dabble with the ex-Cartier Alcos shortly after that, NYS&W was an all EMD outfit.

Getting back to your original post. Now all the remaining SD45s and the SD70s remain stored in Binghamton. From what I understand all the units need overhaul. The F45 -3636 is supposedly beyond repair or has been used as a parts source for the other SD45s. Have also heard that the F45 was not liked by some crews due to how loud it was in the cab.

I have recently seen that some suggestions that when engines are now completely rebuilt (not sure of the true definition of that) they need to comply with current environmental regulations for emmisions. So they may limit the railroad in what they could actually do with these units. It will probably be cheaper for them at this point to continue to lease other units and run them into the ground.

Thanks for that. Where the GE's that worn out that NYSW no longer wanted to use them or spend the money on overhauling them? I understand they were built in the late 80s and went without rebuild, but was it more profitable for NYSW to just sell the fleet of them to P&W and let their needed updating be their problem? And on 3636, I've seen they already started dismantling the unit and appears to be headed for scrapping in the future. Seems like once Walter passed, so did 3636. I think he was the only one that particularly liked that unit as he went through the extra effort to put the engine back into service after being OOS for several years.

Sid Farkus wrote:Thanks for that. Where the GE's that worn out that NYSW no longer wanted to use them or spend the money on overhauling them? I understand they were built in the late 80s and went without rebuild, but was it more profitable for NYSW to just sell the fleet of them to P&W and let their needed updating be their problem? And on 3636, I've seen they already started dismantling the unit and appears to be headed for scrapping in the future. Seems like once Walter passed, so did 3636. I think he was the only one that particularly liked that unit as he went through the extra effort to put the engine back into service after being OOS for several years.

I think cjvrr summed it up. The 4 GE's were odd-balls for NYSW. I doubt their sale to P&W had to do with poor condition, as they went into service almost immediately after sale. I don't recall them getting a lot of overhaul before they left the NYSW. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sid Farkus wrote:Thanks for that. Where the GE's that worn out that NYSW no longer wanted to use them or spend the money on overhauling them? I understand they were built in the late 80s and went without rebuild, but was it more profitable for NYSW to just sell the fleet of them to P&W and let their needed updating be their problem? And on 3636, I've seen they already started dismantling the unit and appears to be headed for scrapping in the future. Seems like once Walter passed, so did 3636. I think he was the only one that particularly liked that unit as he went through the extra effort to put the engine back into service after being OOS for several years.

I believe its noted on another thread by maybe poster "kingfish" who would know a thing or two about the status of the locomotives, was that the 3636 had a CATASTROPHIC prime mover failure (maybe turbo failure which damaged the PM or something like that) and the damage is not worth repairing on the loco as it had a few other issues as well.

I dont' want seem to be putting words in his mouth, but I believe that (or something like that) was downfall of the 3636......I just dont' feel like searching for the post right now

I have the Railfan from July 1987 (I think it was?) and its one of my favorite issues with all the pictures of the SD45s in various paint, but mostly BN green and black...also had the 3670 (I think was the 3638s orginal number?) in fresh yellow and black and looked amazing...ill have to dig it out one of these days and look through it again!

Jtgshu wrote:

Sid Farkus wrote:Thanks for that. Where the GE's that worn out that NYSW no longer wanted to use them or spend the money on overhauling them? I understand they were built in the late 80s and went without rebuild, but was it more profitable for NYSW to just sell the fleet of them to P&W and let their needed updating be their problem? And on 3636, I've seen they already started dismantling the unit and appears to be headed for scrapping in the future. Seems like once Walter passed, so did 3636. I think he was the only one that particularly liked that unit as he went through the extra effort to put the engine back into service after being OOS for several years.

I believe its noted on another thread by maybe poster "kingfish" who would know a thing or two about the status of the locomotives, was that the 3636 had a CATASTROPHIC prime mover failure (maybe turbo failure which damaged the PM or something like that) and the damage is not worth repairing on the loco as it had a few other issues as well.

I dont' want seem to be putting words in his mouth, but I believe that (or something like that) was downfall of the 3636......I just dont' feel like searching for the post right now

I have the Railfan from July 1987 (I think it was?) and its one of my favorite issues with all the pictures of the SD45s in various paint, but mostly BN green and black...also had the 3670 (I think was the 3638s orginal number?) in fresh yellow and black and looked amazing...ill have to dig it out one of these days and look through it again!

This thread might help.

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 57&t=51476

Yes, the F45 had a catastrophic engine failure so it was removed from service. Also at another point the combos were removed from this unit and used on another loco.