joesk268 wrote:In my early teen years, in the mid 1950's, I spent almost all my free time along the old NYS&W Passaic Branch, either riding with the NYS&W crews or walking the length of the branch. I can try to answer any questions about anything to do with the branch if anyone is interested.Was the trestle over the Passaic River single track and was it made entirely of wood ? Did it burn and what year was it taken down ? How long did some of the trains get and did they ever doublehead locos ? Did Presto Lock receive inbound raw materials and ship outbound FGs ? Was there any sidings into the industrial park on DeWitt Street besides the one to the packaging company off Outwater Lane ? Tell us about the siding that swung across the lot where Parthmark/A&P is now located. Was there once an old pond or lake off Semel ? Avenue near GHS that was eventually filled in ? Was the only double track section on this line between Passaic Jct. and Market Street in EP ?
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>Was the trestle over the Passaic River single track and was it made entirely of wood ? Did it burn and what year was it taken down ?
The trestle (known as "The black bridge" in the area) was single track, and was made entirely of wood. The heavy rains and flood conditions of late Spring or early Summer of 1968 caused a massive amount of Passaic River debris to collect at the bridge and I believe the force of the water flow against the bridge abutments caused an actual shift in the bridge supports. (I may have a slide of this if I can find it). I believe (but I'm not positive) that the bridge was never used after this and was disassembled by the railroad.
>How long did some of the trains get and did they ever doublehead locos ?
The trains were never doubleheaded over the branch during the 1950's. In fact it was forbidden by a notation in the employee timetables of those days. I may have some conductor reports (that I filled out when I rode with the crews) which can give a car count, but I'll have to dig them out.
>Did Presto Lock receive inbound raw materials and ship outbound FGs ?
I can't recall any RR cars spotted at the Presto Lock siding during those years.
>Was there any sidings into the industrial park on DeWitt Street besides the one to the packaging company off Outwater Lane ?
If I recall correctly, there were two sidings into Empire Box (Coates Board and Carton??) and one into Presto Lock.
>Tell us about the siding that swung across the lot where Parthmark/A&P is now located.
That siding ran all the way across Jewel Street into the Samuel Hirds factory. I believe you can still see bits of the tracks just off Jewel Street. Also, there was a siding off that siding on the east side of Jewel Street where an occasional hopper car of coal was unloaded and the coal was piled on the ground there.
>Was there once an old pond or lake off Semel ? Avenue near GHS that was eventually filled in ?
Yes there was. It was referred to as "The brickyard" by the locals.
> Was the only double track section on this line between Passaic Jct. and Market Street in EP ?
There were sidings along both sides of the branch between the connection to the main line and Market Street. These were (I believe) to store cars for Kerr Concrete which was located there. The branch itself was only single track for all its length.
The trestle (known as "The black bridge" in the area) was single track, and was made entirely of wood. The heavy rains and flood conditions of late Spring or early Summer of 1968 caused a massive amount of Passaic River debris to collect at the bridge and I believe the force of the water flow against the bridge abutments caused an actual shift in the bridge supports. (I may have a slide of this if I can find it). I believe (but I'm not positive) that the bridge was never used after this and was disassembled by the railroad.
>How long did some of the trains get and did they ever doublehead locos ?
The trains were never doubleheaded over the branch during the 1950's. In fact it was forbidden by a notation in the employee timetables of those days. I may have some conductor reports (that I filled out when I rode with the crews) which can give a car count, but I'll have to dig them out.
>Did Presto Lock receive inbound raw materials and ship outbound FGs ?
I can't recall any RR cars spotted at the Presto Lock siding during those years.
>Was there any sidings into the industrial park on DeWitt Street besides the one to the packaging company off Outwater Lane ?
If I recall correctly, there were two sidings into Empire Box (Coates Board and Carton??) and one into Presto Lock.
>Tell us about the siding that swung across the lot where Parthmark/A&P is now located.
That siding ran all the way across Jewel Street into the Samuel Hirds factory. I believe you can still see bits of the tracks just off Jewel Street. Also, there was a siding off that siding on the east side of Jewel Street where an occasional hopper car of coal was unloaded and the coal was piled on the ground there.
>Was there once an old pond or lake off Semel ? Avenue near GHS that was eventually filled in ?
Yes there was. It was referred to as "The brickyard" by the locals.
> Was the only double track section on this line between Passaic Jct. and Market Street in EP ?
There were sidings along both sides of the branch between the connection to the main line and Market Street. These were (I believe) to store cars for Kerr Concrete which was located there. The branch itself was only single track for all its length.
Is the Samuel Hirds factory where Dunkin Donuts is located ?
Was there a small bridge to cross the creek ? Was there a ballfield on the lot where the supermarket now stands ?
What was typical locomotive power back in those days ? RS1s then GP18s ? Were any ERIE units or LNE units leased or borrowed ?
Was there a small bridge to cross the creek ? Was there a ballfield on the lot where the supermarket now stands ?
What was typical locomotive power back in those days ? RS1s then GP18s ? Were any ERIE units or LNE units leased or borrowed ?
>Is the Samuel Hirds factory where Dunkin Donuts is located ?
Yes. The factory complex occupied the area bounded by Outwater Lane on the south, River Drive on the west, Columbus Ave. on the north and Jewel St. on the east. All the buildings are still intact behind the Dunkin Donuts.
>Was there a small bridge to cross the creek ? Was there a ballfield on the lot where the supermarket now stands ?
Yes and yes. The siding ran parallel to Outwater Lane/Columbus Ave. about half way between those streets and crossed the brook via a small wooden bridge just before the track entered the Hird property (on the east side of Jewel St.) past a gated, high cyclone fence. That property was where 2 or 3 large wooden water tanks were located as well as where the coal was stored on the ground. The ball field was known locally as Hird's field.
>What was typical locomotive power back in those days ? RS1s then GP18s ? Were any ERIE units or LNE units leased or borrowed ?
In the 1950's, the power was RS-1's and S-2's. I never saw any other power on the branch. The GP-18's came on the scene later.
Yes. The factory complex occupied the area bounded by Outwater Lane on the south, River Drive on the west, Columbus Ave. on the north and Jewel St. on the east. All the buildings are still intact behind the Dunkin Donuts.
>Was there a small bridge to cross the creek ? Was there a ballfield on the lot where the supermarket now stands ?
Yes and yes. The siding ran parallel to Outwater Lane/Columbus Ave. about half way between those streets and crossed the brook via a small wooden bridge just before the track entered the Hird property (on the east side of Jewel St.) past a gated, high cyclone fence. That property was where 2 or 3 large wooden water tanks were located as well as where the coal was stored on the ground. The ball field was known locally as Hird's field.
>What was typical locomotive power back in those days ? RS1s then GP18s ? Were any ERIE units or LNE units leased or borrowed ?
In the 1950's, the power was RS-1's and S-2's. I never saw any other power on the branch. The GP-18's came on the scene later.
How many days per week did they drill the line back in hey day ?
I assume the spur to Hirds ran behind ElectroScan and the YMCA.
How many customers were located in the vicinity of Dabal Junkyard and the lumber yard ?
I assume the spur to Hirds ran behind ElectroScan and the YMCA.
How many customers were located in the vicinity of Dabal Junkyard and the lumber yard ?
>How many days per week did they drill the line back in hey day ?
I seem to recall that the branch was drilled almost every day. There were even times when it was drilled twice a day, in the morning and again in the evening.
>I assume the spur to Hirds ran behind ElectroScan and the YMCA.
ElectroScan was not there in the 1950's. That area was Hird's property and was basically vacant except for the wooden water tanks and coal pile I mentioned earlier. Employee cars would sometimes be parked there also. That is where the spur ran though, behind the end of the YMCA building and past the last of the Hird's row houses on Jewel St.
>How many customers were located in the vicinity of Dabal Junkyard and the lumber yard ?
Dabal's had a siding where empty gondolas were spotted to be filled with scrap metal. Almost right across from Dabal's was a siding serving the warehouse/factory that was there (I think it might have been a food company but I'm not really sure). I don't recall ever seeing any railroad service to it back then. Beyond Dabal's, Arctic Fuel and Ice had a siding where hopper cars of coal were spotted to be unloaded. Beyond that was the siding to Hird's we've been talking about and then the three sidings just past Outwater Lane for Empire Box and Presto Lock.
I seem to recall that the branch was drilled almost every day. There were even times when it was drilled twice a day, in the morning and again in the evening.
>I assume the spur to Hirds ran behind ElectroScan and the YMCA.
ElectroScan was not there in the 1950's. That area was Hird's property and was basically vacant except for the wooden water tanks and coal pile I mentioned earlier. Employee cars would sometimes be parked there also. That is where the spur ran though, behind the end of the YMCA building and past the last of the Hird's row houses on Jewel St.
>How many customers were located in the vicinity of Dabal Junkyard and the lumber yard ?
Dabal's had a siding where empty gondolas were spotted to be filled with scrap metal. Almost right across from Dabal's was a siding serving the warehouse/factory that was there (I think it might have been a food company but I'm not really sure). I don't recall ever seeing any railroad service to it back then. Beyond Dabal's, Arctic Fuel and Ice had a siding where hopper cars of coal were spotted to be unloaded. Beyond that was the siding to Hird's we've been talking about and then the three sidings just past Outwater Lane for Empire Box and Presto Lock.
Did one of the sidings for Empire Box cross the creek ?
When were tracks pulled up between River Road to a point just a few yards west of DeWitt street ?
I have seen what looks like reminants of span over the creek and rails under the pavement on the other side by Presto Lock.
Were any of the grade crossings protected or did every one have to be manually flagged ?
When were tracks pulled up between River Road to a point just a few yards west of DeWitt street ?
I have seen what looks like reminants of span over the creek and rails under the pavement on the other side by Presto Lock.
Were any of the grade crossings protected or did every one have to be manually flagged ?
>Did one of the sidings for Empire Box cross the creek ?
Yes. The second (railroad western most) siding did cross over the brook/creek. The brook ran under Outwater Lane and then under the Empire Box building and come out into the open behind the building. I don't remember if there was a simple bridge for the siding or if the brook ran under the track by way of a concrete culvert.
>When were tracks pulled up between River Road to a point just a few yards west of DeWitt street ?
I don't know the answer to that. It was probably some time after 1968 when the bridge over the Passaic River (the "black bridge") was taken down. There were no railroad customers between the Passaic River and the Empire Box (Coates) buildings.
>I have seen what looks like reminants of span over the creek and rails under the pavement on the other side by Presto Lock.
I assume you mean the area south of Outwater Lane behind the former Empire Box building. That was for the second Empire Box siding mentioned above. It was on the opposite side of Presto Lock of course.
>Were any of the grade crossings protected or did every one have to be manually flagged ?
There were no protected crossings. Every crossing, including Route 46, was flagged by the crew, red flag by day, lighted fusee by night.
Yes. The second (railroad western most) siding did cross over the brook/creek. The brook ran under Outwater Lane and then under the Empire Box building and come out into the open behind the building. I don't remember if there was a simple bridge for the siding or if the brook ran under the track by way of a concrete culvert.
>When were tracks pulled up between River Road to a point just a few yards west of DeWitt street ?
I don't know the answer to that. It was probably some time after 1968 when the bridge over the Passaic River (the "black bridge") was taken down. There were no railroad customers between the Passaic River and the Empire Box (Coates) buildings.
>I have seen what looks like reminants of span over the creek and rails under the pavement on the other side by Presto Lock.
I assume you mean the area south of Outwater Lane behind the former Empire Box building. That was for the second Empire Box siding mentioned above. It was on the opposite side of Presto Lock of course.
>Were any of the grade crossings protected or did every one have to be manually flagged ?
There were no protected crossings. Every crossing, including Route 46, was flagged by the crew, red flag by day, lighted fusee by night.
Sounds like there was alot of trackside industry and work for the RR in Garfield back in the day. Did these NYS&W trains typically use a caboose ? Garfield is too often overlooked or forgotten as a RR town. Back in the day you had this branch and the sister branch of the ERIE which serve Dundee too but from the other side of town. Plus plenty of sizeable long distance and local freight on the Bergen Co. Line too.
joesk268 wrote:>Did one of the sidings for Empire Box cross the creek ?I was in the area today, and naturally stopped by to check this out - it is quite interesting (well, to me) the way the brook heads south (in the open, between the Firehouse and the Strip Mall containing the Pizza Hut) crosses under Outwater Lane, continues under a sizable garage/annex (containing Amana Cooling and Allied, judging by the array of signs attached to various parts of that complex), pops into the open again south of that garage, running in a channel due east of that big building (in the parking lot shared with the Sofa outlet), heads under a bridge used to access a truck loading door, pops into the open again (except bridged by steel beams at intervals - these beams appear to be also in that truck bridge mentioned above), and finally exits the channel and continues meandering south (over some sort of weir ) past DeWitt? As you can see, I found it very interesting, and should get back there shortly to photograph the whole scene before they turn it into another strip mall (not saying they will, but in Jersey you never know). Anyway, to tie in the railfan part, there was rements of a siding at the south east corner of this complex, between the building and the brook. I saw two blocked up loading doors along this siding, one very oddly situated at the very end of the building (odd because the brook curved into the siding's path at this very point, preventing the siding from ever heading further [all the concrete was quite old - no recent mods here), and so a standard boxcar door would NOT line up - either they unloaded flat cars, or the siding extended awkwardly halfway across the brook on some sort of On3 model type trestle. Sorry, it just kinda bugs me
Yes. The second (railroad western most) siding did cross over the brook/creek. The brook ran under Outwater Lane and then under the Empire Box building and come out into the open behind the building. I don't remember if there was a simple bridge for the siding or if the brook ran under the track by way of a concrete culvert.
. Also I assume the garage spaning the brook is a recent addition, or else that was one sharp ess-curve to get to that siding (no 72ft Centrebeam flats for that baby).I'm sure the Sofa outlet building, looking like Pre-WWII construction, once had some siding too to service whatever was in it in years past - just couldn't find the freight doors or ROW alley...
As to the Hird complex behind the Dunkin' Donuts, well I took a quick look around (and got some Orange juice, and took a pit stop at Dunkin' while I was there), and saw more rement of a siding, this one more or less in line with the 1-way street coming from the Supermarket parking lot (halfway between Outwater and Columbus) - I figured this had to be the former ROW, and so was another 1-way street coming North from the supermarket parking lot.
In reference to the River crossing, My Geographia Atlas, being 'up to date', shows the ROW heading south following the brook (I guess between the Amana cooling and Sofa outlets, and curving through the parking lot south of the pedestrian bridge), and finally crossing River Road (and thence the river) about where Belmont intersects River Road.
And when that Bridge burned, I don't remember reading this, but does anyone know if the Erie picked up the NYS&W customers along 1st St in Passaic (it wasn't mentioned in articles I read a few years back when the NY&LE started servicing Atlantic Fibers in Passiac again, after the big Garfield/Monroe Avenue service fight).
Are there any remnants at all of the 'black bridge' piers?
Where the Hird factory spur was located, did it branch into two sidings inside the complex?
Old (circa 1900 or so) maps also show a siding West of River Road, but before the 'black bridge'. What was that for?
Where the Hird factory spur was located, did it branch into two sidings inside the complex?
Old (circa 1900 or so) maps also show a siding West of River Road, but before the 'black bridge'. What was that for?
Bring back the Slumbercoaches!!
Was there a customer (i.e. a siding) between River Road and the bank of the river on the Garfield side ?
I recall a small white Keep Off the Bridge sign still standing in this location in early 80s.
I recall a small white Keep Off the Bridge sign still standing in this location in early 80s.
BlockLine_4111 wrote:Sounds like there was alot of trackside industry and work for the RR in Garfield back in the day. Did these NYS&W trains typically use a caboose ? Garfield is too often overlooked or forgotten as a RR town. Back in the day you had this branch and the sister branch of the ERIE which serve Dundee too but from the other side of town. Plus plenty of sizeable long distance and local freight on the Bergen Co. Line too.There certainly was back in the mid 1950's. The trains always used a caboose, one of three engine/caboose sets that worked out of Passaic Junction. If they didn't use a caboose, there wouldn't be a place to store my bicycle when I rode with the crews!
You're absolutely correct about the Erie side also.
>Are there any remnants at all of the 'black bridge' piers?
I don't believe so, but I haven't actually looked at the river at that location.
>Where the Hird factory spur was located, did it branch into two sidings inside the complex?
Yes it did. The "primary" spur, which came off the branch, ran across Jewel St. a short distance into the factory complex. There was another siding which ran off the "primary" spur on the (compass) north side within the Hird's property on the east side of Jewel St. This short siding was where a hopper car of coal would be spotted in November of those years and the coal unloaded and stored on the ground there, I assume as a backup supply for the winter months.
>Old (circa 1900 or so) maps also show a siding West of River Road, but before the 'black bridge'. What was that for?
There was a siding on the east side of River Road (facing point, headed RR west) which was at one time used (I believe) to serve a coal dealer which was located in the vicinity of the River Road/Belmont Ave. intersection. The coal dealer was gone and the siding unused (and maybe even torn up) when I spent time in the area (mid 1950's). I can't quite remember for sure. I don't recall any siding on the west side of River Road though. If there was one years earlier, there was no sign of it in my time frame.
I don't believe so, but I haven't actually looked at the river at that location.
>Where the Hird factory spur was located, did it branch into two sidings inside the complex?
Yes it did. The "primary" spur, which came off the branch, ran across Jewel St. a short distance into the factory complex. There was another siding which ran off the "primary" spur on the (compass) north side within the Hird's property on the east side of Jewel St. This short siding was where a hopper car of coal would be spotted in November of those years and the coal unloaded and stored on the ground there, I assume as a backup supply for the winter months.
>Old (circa 1900 or so) maps also show a siding West of River Road, but before the 'black bridge'. What was that for?
There was a siding on the east side of River Road (facing point, headed RR west) which was at one time used (I believe) to serve a coal dealer which was located in the vicinity of the River Road/Belmont Ave. intersection. The coal dealer was gone and the siding unused (and maybe even torn up) when I spent time in the area (mid 1950's). I can't quite remember for sure. I don't recall any siding on the west side of River Road though. If there was one years earlier, there was no sign of it in my time frame.
Was there an interchange w/ERIE on Dundee Island ? If so wasn't this redundant w/the interchange at Passaic Jct ? Werethere any bridges over the canal to serve local industry on other side of the canal ? How many customers were at the end of the line where the track crossed Ackerman Avenue heading toward the waterfalls ?
BTW for model RS1 see
http://www.primemoverdecals.com/images/ ... ysw238.jpg
BTW for model RS1 see
http://www.primemoverdecals.com/images/ ... ysw238.jpg
