• NYC MTA Congestion Pricing Effects on NYCT, NJT, MNRR, and LIRR

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
According to this Times report, "it may not be over".

Fair Use:
Gov. Kathy Hochul of New York may believe she has the power to unilaterally shut down the nation’s first congestion pricing scheme, which was slated to pump $1 billion a year into the coffers of the nation’s largest transit system.

Not everyone thinks she’s right, and her opponents are eager to prove their case in court.
We shall see.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:36 pm According to this Times report, "it may not be over".

Fair Use:
Gov. Kathy Hochul of New York may believe she has the power to unilaterally shut down the nation’s first congestion pricing scheme, which was slated to pump $1 billion a year into the coffers of the nation’s largest transit system.

Not everyone thinks she’s right, and her opponents are eager to prove their case in court.
We shall see.
Lets hope they file quickly.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Casino Revenue Substitute: NY Post via MSN
NY pols push casino plan to aid MTA as congestion toll mayhem reigns

Speeding up the selection process for the metro area’s three casino licenses could generate billions of dollars in much-needed revenue for the MTA after Gov. Kathy Hochul stalled the congestion toll, state pols say.

“We have to bring the casino deals to fruition — the MTA needs the money,” said state Assembly Racing and Wagering Committee Co-Chairman Gary Pretlow (D-Mount Vernon), who recently co-sponsored a bill to set up a faster timetable for the awarding of the licenses.
...
She claimed it was coming at a bad time for economically strapped drivers, while the transit agency and its supporters blasted her for pulling the rug out from under them out of nowhere — and throwing crucial mass transit projects dependent on the expected $1 billion a year in tolls into upheaval.
...
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Regarding Sgt. Smith's immediate, I'm not surprised that The Post is saying to get casinos built within NYC. Talk about the "financially strapped" who must drive into Midtown and Lower Manhattan to make a living, well, a casino will do much more to unload the wallet/purse/credit card than any Congestion toll.

While I admit such could be wide open for abuse, perhaps some kind of need measurement could be granted to low-income drivers who establish that need to have a vehicle in the Congestion area. But what's $15 to the billionaire being "whisked" in his Escalade from the Upper East Side to the office in Lower Manhattan.

Again, Kathy doesn't face the voters until '26; and voter memories tend to be short. Even if she has "1600 in '28" visions, I fail to see how the Congestion tolling would hurt those.
  by lensovet
 
There were already two low income provisions in the original plan:

- people with annual incomes under 60k paid only 50% of the toll
- people with annual incomes under 70k could deduct the cost of the tolls on their state income taxes

But yeah, more casinos is what we need. What a racket.
  by edflyerssn007
 
lensovet wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:01 pm There were already two low income provisions in the original plan:

- people with annual incomes under 60k paid only 50% of the toll
- people with annual incomes under 70k could deduct the cost of the tolls on their state income taxes

But yeah, more casinos is what we need. What a racket.
Casino's can also bring in people from out of state AND they only affect those that CHOOSE to go there. It's a more fair way to get money than forcing a new tax on the middle class. The rich guys wouldn't be affected by this, just the middle class they rely on to get them around.
  by Head-end View
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:54 am
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:36 pm According to this Times report, "it may not be over".

Fair Use:
Gov. Kathy Hochul of New York may believe she has the power to unilaterally shut down the nation’s first congestion pricing scheme, which was slated to pump $1 billion a year into the coffers of the nation’s largest transit system.

Not everyone thinks she’s right, and her opponents are eager to prove their case in court.
We shall see.
Lets hope they file quickly.
It would be really ironic if the courts rule that the Governor did not have the authority to pause the plan, and orders it implemented after all. Imagine the uproar that would cause.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:23 am But what's $15 to the billionaire being "whisked" in his Escalade from the Upper East Side to the office in Lower Manhattan.
The flip side to this controversy is the guy being "whisked" in his Escalade from 880 5th to 40 Wall is that he is all for mass transit.

"Get those cars off the streets so I can get around faster". :P
  by lensovet
 
edflyerssn007 wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:31 pm
lensovet wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:01 pm There were already two low income provisions in the original plan:

- people with annual incomes under 60k paid only 50% of the toll
- people with annual incomes under 70k could deduct the cost of the tolls on their state income taxes

But yeah, more casinos is what we need. What a racket.
Casino's can also bring in people from out of state AND they only affect those that CHOOSE to go there. It's a more fair way to get money than forcing a new tax on the middle class. The rich guys wouldn't be affected by this, just the middle class they rely on to get them around.
That's a new one. Don't think I've ever heard of casinos as being a "more fair way to get money". Is the lottery also a more fair way to fund schools?

And what is this middle class that gets rich guys around…but somehow will eat the cost of the congestion fee instead of passing it onto the rich guys?
  by RandallW
 
I see the Atlantic City casinos are great at bringing in people from outside of NJ. (I think the only Casinos that have significant out of state business are in Las Vegas or are close to a state line, and those don't seem to be casinos that attract high rollers.)

Introducing gambling of any sort as a revenue source is introducing mechanisms to extract money from the poorer people in the state -- you don't see the upper or middle classes playing scratchers in convenience stores--you see the working stiffs hoping to win a little extra.
  by lensovet
 
RandallW wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 5:54 pm I see the Atlantic City casinos are great at bringing in people from outside of NJ.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm but AC has basically realized that casinos are not a panacea and has largely pivoted away from them.
  by RandallW
 
lensovet wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:57 pm
RandallW wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 5:54 pm I see the Atlantic City casinos are great at bringing in people from outside of NJ.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm but AC has basically realized that casinos are not a panacea and has largely pivoted away from them.
That was sarcastic.
  by eolesen
 
The problem with Atlantic City casinos is that they are in Atlantic City.

There's no shortage of people going to casinos in other locations that are within a very short drive of where they live, and yes, it's entirely reasonable to look at casino and Lottery revenues for the state as voluntary taxation.

What I find interesting is that so many of the responses to the suspension of the tolling program say that the MTA will be just fine.

If that's the case, why should people be taxed to raise more money that the MTA doesn't need for essential operations?

Given the rampant overtime abuse, it's pretty clear the MTA has not been good stewards of the funds they already have allocated to them. I don't understand why so many people here are cheerleading to give them more money to misappropriate.

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk
  by RandallW
 
I'm under the impression that pretty much every public transit agency has seen an uptick in overtime these past few years--the jobs available within public transit have seen an increase in violence towards them and likely don't offer competitive pay (and may not even be able to under various legislatively set pay scales), so the use of overtime is the only way public transit systems have been able to keep system running given their inability to hire sufficient new employees to keep up with required staffing levels.

In the cases of overtime abuse, I'll posit that if MTA were to implement systems to identify it rapidly, they'll find themselves blocked at the legislative level from doing so, or blocked at the union level from acting on any information provided by those systems -- ending that abuse would require legislative action to tackle it and real action would be painted as "not supporting [insert employee type here]" (whether or not it is or isn't is irrelevant in political messaging), and so is a politically difficult act to accomplish. On top of which systems to monitor against fraud are expensive and require hiring more people to run those systems, so you have to go to the legislature with hat in hand to beg for the money that can be allocated to build such a system.

(Full disclosure: I work for a company that makes "accountability monitoring" systems and they are employed extensively where fraud, waste, abuse and other "insider threats" have led to loss of life or intelligence and military mission compromise, and in private industry although every single private employer using such a system will strenuously deny it.)
  by lensovet
 
eolesen wrote: Sun Jun 16, 2024 7:13 am What I find interesting is that so many of the responses to the suspension of the tolling program say that the MTA will be just fine.
Huh? Pretty much no one who supported congestion pricing has said that.

And the people who didn't support it are obviously going to say that. How else could they justify this?
  • 1
  • 8
  • 9
  • 10
  • 11
  • 12
  • 14