• NYA operates the Lower Montauk Branch now ???

  • Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.
Discussion related to NYAR operations on Long Island. Official web site can be found here: www.anacostia.com/nyar/nyar.html. Also includes discussion related to NYNJ Rail, the carfloat operation successor to New York Cross Harbor that connects with NYAR.
  by Backshophoss
 
From my LIRR engineer freind,LIRR considers the Lower Montauk OOS,NY+A may have taken control and runs under GCOR rules
(current version 6)when not on LIRR trackage.(NY+A is listed as a adopter of GCOR.)
For now the only way to reach Arch St shops is via the cutoff from the old wb freight track(reported to be OOS)
along with a NY+A pilot.
  by Insideman
 
Signals have something to do with ESA work thats why they are "G" head. Not widening the yard but demolishing of some of the current burned buildings and refubishing the decent ones. And of course tracks.

Backshop is correct about the pilots and rules. GCOR is superior then LIRR's rules straight out of the 19th century. Most RR's in the US use it and if not that then NORAC.
  by emfinite
 
I believe Arch Street can be accessed via the Amtrak north runner. I remember going in there a few times on a Long Island roustabout. There is a crossover under jurisdiction of Q tower that can be used to access it.
  by Sir Ray
 
Concerning the Montuak Cut-Off and WheelSpur Yard, there is a rather relevant post in the LIRR Forum Continental Baking Company thread with some more (or at least collaberating) info
Semaphore Elliot Courtney Nov 2012:
"We have a siding come off C secondary here, curve around this warehouse and run parallel to the bulkheads for a potential marine transload". Edwin Deleon's voice echoes across th9s industrial site situated between Newtown Creek and the Lower Montauk branch. He's the second in command of track for the New York & Atlantic Railway (NYAR) and is proud of this new site. It's the former LIRR Wheelspur yard east of the Long Island City station along the Lower Montauk branch and has great potential for a transload terminal.
Customers from the Jackson Ave Yards, next to the LIRR's Arch Street Shops, will be moved there when the Montauk Cutoff Viaduct is retired to avoid structural reinforcement required for long term operation. It is currently limited to the weight of 263,000 pound rolling stock. The same is not said about the Main Line Cutoff viaduct which is a steel trestle that drops into the middle of Harold interlocking near the Hunterspoint Avenue station.
Further east in Blissville yard, measurements are taken for a turnout to provide access off the east end of the renovated yard to the main. The yard will be used to hold cars from the planned Waste Management ("WM") Transfer station and other traffic. Currently WM uses trucks to move their trash out, but investment by WM, NYAR and the city are changing that mode.
Looking at the area from one of "Trains Are Fun" LIC Track Diagrams. and comparing it to the Bing Bird's Eye of the area, if I understand correctly, the longish building south of the LIRR Montauk to HPA (the area marked "City of NY Poultry Yard" on the track diagram) has partially destroyed in a fire, and the remainder will be torn down to create the new Transload yard, where the 2 current clients from Jackson Avenue yard will be moved; a siding (shown on the track diagram - the ROW seems readily apparently in the Bing View, SW of that long building, judging from the way the trucks and other vehicles are parked following a nice slanting curve) will be rebuilt down to alongside the wharfside (where the barge is in the linked Bing view, although in other view angles it disappears and different ships appear); the "Mainline cutoff" (the single track steel trestle that rises up just north of the leads to the South Portals of the East River tunnels) is to be rebuilt, and the Montauk Cut-off (the 2 track viaduct that rises up just north of the leads to the NORTH Portals of the East River tunnels) is to be removed - the section of line shared by both cut-offs south of Skillman that crosses Dutch Kills and curves back East to connect to the Montauk branch I guess will be upgraded (and those forgotten blue intermodal bogies finally removed); the space vacated at Jackson Avenue/Arch St. is to be used for LIRR storage for the ESA (thereby irritating Mayor Bloomie, who's wealthy friends won't be able to build another unoccupied luxury condo there and get investment tax credits from it.
Do I have that all correct?
  by mikey cruz
 
Guess that means LIRR has to get rid of those intermodal cars they wasted money on years ago that are just sittin up there. Soo much opportunity for intermodal in general and no one can come up with a way to do it. =(
  by mikey cruz
 
I'm also guessing that LIRR will take over that area next to Arch st shops and use it?
  by DogBert
 
The fire damage was only to the garage section of that one building. The offices next to it were fine but probably not suited for any rail customer reuse. They'd be better off pulling the whole thing down.

The smaller building east of what burned was being used to transload produce from larger trucks to smaller ones for delivery around town. It's pretty much intact and covered in rolldown gates. You could slap a track on either side of it and transload immediately.

Maybe when Fresh Direct leaves another food customer will take over that facility - it's got everything they would need and an unused rail siding.
  by freightguy
 
It seems from some previous post the main purpose of the yard is to shift the small amout of freight left from LIC team yard to the western end of Lower Montauk. Tha building at 2116 Jackson Ave(blue building) was actually NYAR's first HQ and former LIRR freight clerk building.

A few problems I forsee is not being to handle the Plate F boxcars. The big reefers and others do occaisonally make their way out to Long
Island. You cannot do this with M Subway bridge and Fresh Pond Rd going over the Lower Montauk. Also with the limited real estate Im not sure what size marine terminal could be put there. Blissville has sat dormant for over 4 years and isn't really big at all compared to the former LIRR Blissville yard. The switch is on the West end off C secondary and it would be easier to double end it off East end. BEDT had a marine rail transfer closer to East River, I believe it was called Pigeon St.
  by DogBert
 
I don't see what sort of marine transfer they can do in there either. It would be just big enough to replace arch street.

Blissville has bee used twice this year for car storage. Earlier in the year it was full of gons I believe for Gershow. For a month or two it also had a batch of gons which so far as I can tell the LIRR eventually used in the harold cleanup last weekend.

The switch from the west is a little strange. The yard tracks they have now would be more useful if it was double ended. It was pretty full with the 30-40 cars stored there this year, so it isn't very big either.
  by jayrmli
 
>Guess that means LIRR has to get rid of those intermodal cars they wasted money on years ago that are just sittin up there. Soo much opportunity for intermodal in general and no one can come up with a way to do it. =(

Those bogie cars were purchased using government funding and due to that they can not be scrapped for X number of years. You will most likely never see "real" intermodal (i.e. TOFC) on Long Island. The way you play the intermodal game is through speed, and there is no fast way to move these products off of Long Island. The faster way is to truck them to Jersey and move them from there. Also, take CSX for example - they will not accept intermodal on one of their trains unless it is originated in a CSX facility. So unless one of the big players like CSX assumes the freight operation directly (which they won't), you won't see it.
  by mikey cruz
 
Wow I wasn't aware CSX was like that with intermodal, I wonder if those cars could be sold to another small railroad somewhere to try out.
  by Backshophoss
 
If NY+A has total control of the lower Montauk,they could undercut 1 of the main lines to allow plate "F" cars to pass
under the bridges in question.
Then would NY City along with the LIRR allow the needed undercutting of 1 of the main tracks??
  by jayrmli
 
I doubt there would be a need for those bogie cars anywhere else anyway. Why would you bother using a car which was prone to derailments and had a speed restriction of 20MPH when there are successful intermodal bogies out there to purchase/lease?
  by freightguy
 
If NY+A has total control of the lower Montauk,they could undercut 1 of the main lines to allow plate "F" cars to pass
under the bridges in question.
Then would NY City along with the LIRR allow the needed undercutting of 1 of the main tracks??

Backshop,

Mt Olivet is biggest grade on the railroad. I dont know what sort of work would have to be done to undercut Montauk 1 or 2. The bridge/overpass is a long one and a very wide span also over those tracks and the Buswick lead. Call me crazy I wonder if it would be easier to depress the west end of Fresh Pond yard and cut in a crossover from Bushwich lead to Mtk #2. Not sure how long the lease is for, it will be interesting to see what the physical plant looks like in 5 years. The track was good for 40 mph. I heard it is now 20 mph with a restricted spped clause thrown in there.