• Number of doors per rail car

  • General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.
General discussion of passenger rail proposals and systems not otherwise covered in the specific forums in this category, including high speed rail.

Moderators: mtuandrew, gprimr1

  by eolesen
 
Essentially you won't find high level boarding anywhere east of the NEC with the exception of the South Shore and Metra Electric.

Every other heavy commuter rail operation is low level boarding.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:04 pm The exception is if the railroad line is owned by Amtrak or the government agency providing the rail service, and most of the time it's a recent addition -- there's a lot of legacy (read: PRR-origin) areas where it's still low-block and hasn't been raised yet.
NJT's Hoboken Division comes to mind, as there were no high levels until the late 80s/early 90s, being all EL legacy (HOB is still low level). The Comet I fleet (from 1970) was designed as low door only until rebuilt in 1987. The mini-highs on the east end of some Hoboken Division stations are a legacy of the Comet I, as it was not
uncommon for the cab car to be the only accessible car per train.

Even the NEC was once all low level, with New York and Newark Penn Stations and 30 Street being high level from day one in 1910, 1935 and 1932 respectively.
  by STrRedWolf
 
eolesen wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:29 pm Essentially you won't find high level boarding anywhere east of the NEC with the exception of the South Shore and Metra Electric.

Every other heavy commuter rail operation is low level boarding.
You mean west.
  by west point
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:31 am
Even the NEC was once all low level, with New York and Newark Penn Stations and 30 Street being high level from day one in 1910, 1935 and 1932 respectively.
Those 3 were the only PRR stations without any freight trains passing thru. There fore no clearance issues for the high levels
  by eolesen
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 7:30 am
eolesen wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:29 pm Essentially you won't find high level boarding anywhere east of the NEC with the exception of the South Shore and Metra Electric.

Every other heavy commuter rail operation is low level boarding.
You mean west.
Yup... I started out as saying you won't see it outside the east coast, and then remembered that some people don't consider the DC area as the east coast....
  by Arborwayfan
 
eolesen wrote: Every other heavy commuter rail operation is low level boarding.
True, but at least one of those low-level boarding systems also has level boarding: Frontrunner in Utah, where the platforms exactly line up with the lower floors of the bilevel cars. There are two subway-style, rider-controlled sliding doors on each side of every car. So practically speaking it's equivalent to high-level boarding, because no one has to climb steps. In the Superliner replacement forum someone asked what the advantage of bilevel cars was; I can't really answer that for long-distance trains, but for commuter service, where no one needs to move from car to car and where you really do want people to be able to board at all doors, one advantage is that it's got to be cheaper to build a level-boarding platform to line up with the lower level of a bilevel than with the floor of a single-level car, and such a platform is low enough (?) to be OK on freight lines (which Frontrunner doesn't run on because separate tracks).
  by eolesen
 

Arborwayfan wrote:
eolesen wrote: Every other heavy commuter rail operation is low level boarding.
True, but at least one of those low-level boarding systems also has level boarding: Frontrunner in Utah, where the platforms exactly line up with the lower floors of the bilevel cars. There are two subway-style, rider-controlled sliding doors on each side of every car.
That's only applicable if they operate Bombardier cars. If they ran Nippon-Sharyo or single level equipment, that level boarding goes away for most doors.

Herzog as an operator will usually spec out a fixed mid/high ramp at the cabcar end of platforms. That design started with TRE who had both Bombardier and RDCs. It also worked for Frontrunner when the Comets were planned.

It would work for Amtrak if you were able to move the entire length of the train in a wheelchair.

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  by eolesen
 
I'm pretty certain that the bulk of the stations in the Metra system which are not ADA compatible are those within the city limits of Chicago, where grade separation is mandatory and space is constrained. Adding an elevator and lobby at street level isn't going to be done for $3M at Chicago rates.

Once completed, they create a new problem which is keeping the elevators operational, and ensuring that those new street level lobbies don't become homeless encampments. That's part of the reason those grade separated stations are mostly open platforms without a waiting room.

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  by R36 Combine Coach
 
eolesen wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 8:10 am I'm pretty certain that the bulk of the stations in the Metra system which are not ADA compatible are those within the city limits of Chicago, where grade separation is mandatory and space is
constrained.
Yet almost every elevated LIRR station in city limits has been upgraded to ADA.

In the case of LIRR within city limits, the City of New York covers the bill for station reconstruction.
  by MACTRAXX
 
west point wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:44 pm
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:31 am
Even the NEC was once all low level, with New York and Newark Penn Stations and 30 Street being high level from day one in 1910, 1935 and 1932 respectively.
Those 3 were the only PRR stations without any freight trains passing thru. There fore no clearance issues for the high levels
R36 and WP - I wanted to set the record straight on where "legacy" high-level platforms on the PRR were
reading these comments - to begin in the NEC add Trenton and North Philadelphia...On former PRR commuter
lines in New Jersey Rahway, Avenel, Woodbridge and Princeton had high level platforms...In the Philadelphia
area Chelten Avenue and Chestnut Hill (West) and the two island platform station at Norristown - which was
previously abandoned and then removed in the 1980s to make way for construction of the SEPTA Norristown TC...

The CNJ had two stations with legacy high level platforms at Cranford and Elizabethport as another NJ
commuter mention...Yes - The EL routes in NJ and for extra mention the entire Reading commuter service
had no legacy high-level platforms - the first RDG commuter station to have a high-level platform was
Warminster which was a one-stop extension from Hatboro built by SEPTA in 1974...

Lancaster has PRR vintage high level platforms on the Philadelphia-Harrisburg Line...

The most interesting locations to once have PRR legacy high-level platforms on the Middle Division were
Johnstown, Wilkinsburg and East Liberty (both in the Pittsburgh commuter district) in western Pennsylvania...

Johnstown had two island high-level platforms serving all four main tracks that were demolished and
replaced with the current single island platform serving two tracks in 1975 - by that time the platforms
and canopy were in bad condition and not worth full replacement to serve four Amtrak trains per day...

Wilkinsburg and East Liberty had island high-level platforms that were removed sometime after PRR Pittsburgh
commuter service ended in the middle 1960s - remnants that remained was the spacing between the tracks
along with closed stairs to platform level on roadway underpasses - the biggest change was the construction of
the PAT MLK East Busway in the early 1980s between Pittsburgh Penn Station and Rankin (E of Wilkinsburg)
along the former PRR ROW which reduced the rail route from four to two tracks in that area...

The former PRR stations I mention date from before the Metroliner Project added high-level platforms at
Wilmington, Baltimore, Capital Beltway (replaced by New Carrollton in Fall 1983) and Washington...
Metropark in New Jersey was constructed by PC at the same general late 1960s-early 1970s time period...

Getting back to the original topic building rail equipment with door capability at both high and low
platforms - such as all of Amtrak's single level fleet and legacy single level Heritage cars - makes them
more flexible for service than cars built with just one type of door to platform height access...
MACTRAXX
  by ExCon90
 
Thanks to MACTRAXX for pointing those out -- I remembered Chelten Ave., but wasn't sure about Johnstown, and had forgotten about all those others. Also, according to Wikipedia the present station at Lancaster was opened in 1929, and I'm sure it had high platforms at the outset -- the PRR certainly didn't install new ones from the 1930's onwards. Seems like maybe the PRR decided sometime in the 20's that all future installations would be high-level.
  by MACTRAXX
 
Everyone - Found these Johnstown, PA Station pictures:
The first three are dated July 10, 1973 and shows the condition of the high platforms in the late PC years -
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3752862
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3752854
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3752855
This picture shows the replacement single low platform facility - May 13, 1989:
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3370419

The JST situation probably was that Penn Central wanted those high platforms gone on what is a heavily
used freight route - Amtrak's compromise was the single low platform that was built in 1975...MACTRAXX
  by flexliner
 
Back to my original question re doors per car.
Saw a clip on YouTube about Amtraks new Midwest cars.
As the trait left CHI it passed a bunch of these cars in a yard. From a bit far away it seemed that some cars had doors both ends while others had doors on one end with a plug on the opposite end. (I guess like the silverliners have where the arrows center doors are)
If I saw correctly in the clip why would some cars be ordered one way and others differently?
  by flexliner
 
Addendum to last post
Read on Wiki re Siemens venture cars.
Seems coach class has one vestibule
While Biz has two.

Counterintuitive.
Wouldn’t you want two points of egress for high density coach and maybe one for less dense Biz?


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  by eolesen
 
Assuming both doors exist for the business class cars, the experiential aspect of having faster egress could be a justifier for paying more to ride in business class.



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