NS Coal Train Derails on NEC at Perryman MD

scratchyX1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:40 pm I take it that convoy had little impact getting into DC?

Nah, I’m staying at the hotel (roomed w/a friend from Florida). Drove down Thursday afternoon. “Normal” DC area traffic.

I’ll probably get an indication on what’s going on tomorrow morning with the MARC email alerts.

Does the MTA have any ongoing arrangements with the large intercity bus operators for rail replacement services during major suspensions like this one? Or will they have to hire in buses on an “ad hoc” basis to serve the stations north of Martin State Airport if the line is still partially blocked?

EDIT: Could Amtrak potentially run a 2-hourly WAS-BAL shuttle service to relieve any potential overcrowding on MARC and to maintain service at BWI? Have Amtrak trains ever regularly reversed at BAL using the routes that the MARC services use?

The reality, based on https://www.amtrak.com/tickets/train-status.html, seems to be that Amtrak ran nothing between Philadelphia and Washington on Sun. 3/6/22. The only trains between Washington and the South were the Crescent. Silver Service didn't run North of Jacksonville.
Is Norfolk Southern really liable for all loss of revenue in the South?

Is Norfolk Southern really liable for all loss of revenue in the South?

Would likely be dependent on the cause of the derailment. AMTRAK owns the track, NS owns the train. Seems people are assuming the NS train was at fault, which does seem to be where one would jump to a conclusion BUT until the cause is known, no one can answer the liability question. Perhaps AMTRAK will owe NS lost revenue payments if the track was at fault.

TheOneKEA wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:42 pm Does the MTA have any ongoing arrangements with the large intercity bus operators for rail replacement services during major suspensions like this one? Or will they have to hire in buses on an “ad hoc” basis to serve the stations north of Martin State Airport if the line is still partially blocked?

EDIT: Could Amtrak potentially run a 2-hourly WAS-BAL shuttle service to relieve any potential overcrowding on MARC and to maintain service at BWI? Have Amtrak trains ever regularly reversed at BAL using the routes that the MARC services use?

MTA Maryland has “Commuter Bus” service that MARC manages (the department after all is called “MARC and Commuter Bus”). So they can ring Academy et al and see about extra capacity on existing contracts for Amtrak. Plus, Amtrak I think can pull from Greyhound via Thruway service.

That said, I don’t know if Bayview has a wye, allowing Amtrak to turn a train. Amtrak I doubt is push-pull except on the Acella. If they go push-pull on a Regional Shuttle or two, possible.

Doesn’t matter anyway. Amtrak got a track up and working now. MARC alerts have the second Perryville train with a 10-15 min delay due to single track operations.

JimBoylan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:45 pm Is Norfolk Southern really liable for all loss of revenue in the South?

As I noted on the previous page and Mr. Long Branch immediately inferred:

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:12 am Possibly some of our barristers around here can contribute more than I can on this point, but the question of "who pays for what" nags?

Now if Topper's train was DETOURING over the Corridor, the General Manager's Association (GMA) rules that "he's on tap for everything - including consequential damages" would apply. However, such an occurrence is probably covered within the scope of a bilateral agreement that has been in place since C-Day, or April 1, 1976. A like incident occurred during Sep '76 when a Conrail spilled in the middle of the Baltimore tunnel.

But be it assured; the Amtrak "beagles" are already toting up two days lost revenue from "our jewel", the earnings, of T, E, and OBS that they are paid under guarantees within their Agreements, and on and on......

And finally to Mr. Long Branch, it is hard to imagine that FRA Class 6 track could be the issue; just as in the case of BNSF Class 4 @ Joplin. But both in that September incident and that we are addressing here, the NTSB has investigative jurisdiction (no injuries but still a lot of property) - and they are "the best in the business".

Stand by for a "prelim" which I think is soon coming.

NY&LB wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:50 am

Is Norfolk Southern really liable for all loss of revenue in the South?

Would likely be dependent on the cause of the derailment. AMTRAK owns the track, NS owns the train. Seems people are assuming the NS train was at fault, which does seem to be where one would jump to a conclusion BUT until the cause is known, no one can answer the liability question. Perhaps AMTRAK will owe NS lost revenue payments if the track was at fault.

Can say right now this is being looked at for sure…

While much too early to say conclusively, "Topper; dropping your shoe like that photo Mr. 8th Notch has shared, would certainly suggest your masters at 1200 Peachtree NE will be cutting down your oats".

Finally, to close back on the rails, a review of the website suggests Amtrak plans a normal schedule today.

I don’t know. Can Amtrak run a regular schedule on one track for half a day? This afternoon will be a true test of that, if they get a second track repaired.

Traditionally, Amtrak's agreements with the host roads have been mutually No Fault, each party pays for its own loses. When the Texas Chief hit Santa Fe's broken rail in the early 1970s, the railroad paid for the track and Amtrak paid for the injuries and train damage. When ConRail locomotives ran in front of the Colonial in 1987, ConRail requested reimbursement from Amtrak for any damages a Court might force it to pay to passengers. Left unsaid was what should be done if ConRail had been found criminally liable for passengers' injuries or deaths. What value do you put on jail time?
If Amtrak tries a different policy on the NorthEast Corridor, the freight roads will surely impose the same or worse terms to Amtrak on freight rails.

Mr. Boylan, while it has been forty years since I've seen a railroad paycheck, at that time all roads and Amttak had entered into a "no fault" liability arrangement as you outlined.

I think such was "all bets off" if some party's action rose to a criminal level.

But what we are addressing here is a separate Agreement that has been in place since C-Day with Conrail and, as successors, Chessie and Topper. The terms could be the "no fault", but it could provide for civil litigation.

I just plain "don't know" and being a bilateral agreement, no one is obligated to disclose.

Finally, regarding Mr. Wolf's well-founded concers expressed within his immediate, I checked Train Status; there are delays, but they're getting through. As example, the Acela that left NYP 6A is scheduled WAS 859A. It arrived 919A.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:08 am

TheOneKEA wrote: ↑Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:42 pm Does the MTA have any ongoing arrangements with the large intercity bus operators for rail replacement services during major suspensions like this one? Or will they have to hire in buses on an “ad hoc” basis to serve the stations north of Martin State Airport if the line is still partially blocked?

EDIT: Could Amtrak potentially run a 2-hourly WAS-BAL shuttle service to relieve any potential overcrowding on MARC and to maintain service at BWI? Have Amtrak trains ever regularly reversed at BAL using the routes that the MARC services use?

MTA Maryland has “Commuter Bus” service that MARC manages (the department after all is called “MARC and Commuter Bus”). So they can ring Academy et al and see about extra capacity on existing contracts for Amtrak. Plus, Amtrak I think can pull from Greyhound via Thruway service.

That said, I don’t know if Bayview has a wye, allowing Amtrak to turn a train. Amtrak I doubt is push-pull except on the Acella. If they go push-pull on a Regional Shuttle or two, possible.

Doesn’t matter anyway. Amtrak got a track up and working now. MARC alerts have the second Perryville train with a 10-15 min delay due to single track operations.

Why would a wye be necessary? My (faulty?) assumption was that the ACS-64 would arrive at BAL, cut off and run around its train before backing on and coupling up to travel back to WAS. Are there no yard personnel at BAL who can do such a thing? Does the interlocking not allow such a move to be done outside of a suspension or closure?

Just got this via MARC alerts:

Penn Line Train 548 (9:00pm departure from Washington) will terminate at Edgewood station tonight due to unscheduled Amtrak trackwork to repair the damage from Saturday's freight train derailment. Passengers traveling to Aberdeen and Perryville stations will be provided alternate bus transportation to these stations. Passengers will transfer to the bus at Martin Airport station. We regret any inconvenience this

(Message terminates at that point, verified off the web site)

Given that the Night Owl (65/66/67) is canceled until the end of March, I'd say the got some good overnight work to do.

TheOneKEA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:00 pm Why would a wye be necessary? My (faulty?) assumption was that the ACS-64 would arrive at BAL, cut off and run around its train before backing on and coupling up to travel back to WAS. Are there no yard personnel at BAL who can do such a thing? Does the interlocking not allow such a move to be done outside of a suspension or closure?

I'm not sure what forces are actually up at BAL. It's possible to do the end-run-around on CHARLES and ST. PAUL interlockings, but depends on how full the tracks are. I don't know the state of the track 2/3 platform.

For doing Amtrak bus-sub service? Okay, I actually wrote up a similar situation here, so let me work off of that...

• MARC "takes over" WAS-BAL and does 20-min headways. Assuming a 40 min "turn time", you'll need 10 consists... and you'll need 3 tracks for it at WAS and BAL platforms.
• MARC, Amtrak, and Greyhound team up to do the commuter shuttle service. From Baltimore to Wilmington, it goes a primary I-95 for an 1h20m route.
• SEPTA and Amtrak pick up the slack at Wilmington.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:32 pm

TheOneKEA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:00 pm Why would a wye be necessary? My (faulty?) assumption was that the ACS-64 would arrive at BAL, cut off and run around its train before backing on and coupling up to travel back to WAS. Are there no yard personnel at BAL who can do such a thing? Does the interlocking not allow such a move to be done outside of a suspension or closure?

I'm not sure what forces are actually up at BAL. It's possible to do the end-run-around on CHARLES and ST. PAUL interlockings, but depends on how full the tracks are. I don't know the state of the track 2/3 platform.

For doing Amtrak bus-sub service? Okay, I actually wrote up a similar situation here, so let me work off of that...

• MARC "takes over" WAS-BAL and does 20-min headways. Assuming a 40 min "turn time", you'll need 10 consists... and you'll need 3 tracks for it at WAS and BAL platforms.
• MARC, Amtrak, and Greyhound team up to do the commuter shuttle service. From Baltimore to Wilmington, it goes a primary I-95 for an 1h20m route.
• SEPTA and Amtrak pick up the slack at Wilmington.

That was the question I had. You have a derailment between Wilmington and Baltimore and you suspend all service between Philadelphia and Washington? I always try to support AMTRAK but they don't seem to want support from the general public.