Now those RPI guys definitely won't talk to me...

Well after I post this, I'm pretty sure that the guys from Rennselaer Polytechnic Insitute (RPI) won't ever talk to me again. Was browsing over their web site when I came across the section about visiting their layout...

... now as we all know, for the past 25 years or so, the club has been busy building their New England, Berkshire & Western, a kind of composite of the Rutland and the D&H between Troy and Montreal. It is a spectacular effort, and the layout has spawned many articles in RMC and MR from the club members over the years.

The page in question starts this way:

However, when it is not possible to make an open house, we may be able to schedule a special visit, by appointment only.
* Admission is $30 per hour for one person, and a $14 additional flat fee for each additional person, for a 90 minute personally escorted tour. (In other words, $45 for one person, $59 for two, $73 for three, and so on.) Even if you feel you don't need a guide, we can't let people wander around unescorted.
    (This is VERY labor intensive for us and therefore this service is only available for people from out of town.)

No kidding! The NEB&W is a huge layout! Highly detailed! Takes hours to clean and get ready for service! I know, I've seen it, and they were nice enough to invite my club out there for an op session a few years back. But what if I'm in town, and I just want to say hello, or attend one of your meetings, or just take a couple of digital pictures and leave? Do you want my credit card number now, or should I sit down with my loan officer? The page goes on and on describing detailed instructions on how to arrange a visit, the costs involved, etc.

The layout is certainly worth a visit. The attitude, I can do without. Read on, the list of requirements will make you chuckle. Quite obvious that the RPI folks do not want you to visit. Do they really have a problem with so many unwanted guests that they have to turn them away in this manner?

Club layouts are a large undertaking, but this kind of attitude clearly says, "STAY OUT" and suggests that we cant possibly appreciate the time and effort that goes into a project like the NEB&W.

visit the page in question: http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/special.asp

What do you all think? Am I way off base?

-otto-

Well, Otto, while I obstensibly agree that the statements in the website do discourage any expectations of a 'drop-in' visit, I think it's important to remember that this club is comprised of about 50% students and 50% outside or community members. As you yourself admit, getting such a large layout ready for exhibit is a lot of work and perhaps inconvenient to the student population who belongs to the club.

Further, I believe this club received a grant from the city of Rensselaer or the local county to bolster the local history elements of the model railroad. This might have some bearing on their need to recover any costs incurred by the club for "extra-curricular" activities such as a special exhibition of the layout.

No excuses though -- you are definitely left with the feeling that special attention will only be paid to visitors outside of the regular open house calendar with the payment of some premium fees.

Perhaps one could satisfy curiosity with the Keller videos??

Chris Baker

Whatever they are trying to tell us, the message is coming across poorly. I think they need to rewrite the page so it reads less like an immigration form, and more like an invitation- if they indeed do want visitors (sounds like they don't).

-otto-

Hey Otto,
do ya think any trains 'll be running. I have several short 2 and 3 word phrases that cover their attitude!! The Iron Duke

As a former member of the Summit-New Providence club in Murray Hill which went on to become the The Model RR Club in Union, they never would think of charging large fees or turning away guests, rather they welcomed them. They are not only just a club, but exist to show off model railroading to the Public. Even today the Model RR Club invites people to come by on Saturdays (which are work sessions), a small admission (donation) is charged, and you can roam around, talk to some one, take pictures. The goal of the club has been to welcome everyone to the world model railroading. The first section of the layout is 40 x 40 feet square and they are now constructing the rest of the layout in the new section section. This layout is around 120 feet long by about 50 feet wide. This is a hugh HO layout and will be a couple of decade before it is finished. The admission fees collected at the shows goes toward building maintenance and related costs, anything left over goes into the layout. The building was constructed by the members and actually given to the Union County park system and they have a perpetual lease with them. They receive no funds form the county toward the construction of either the building or layout or for maintenance. The building extension recently got its C.O. a year ago and was built meeting all current building and ADA codes. This included upgrading the older section, no small cost. In the seventies, I was a former president and ran two years of shows. If I recall correctly, we had over 5000+ people attending the annual show with a layout that was only a few years in the making. I guess some clubs view their layout's relation to the Public differently. I would guess if you were to e-mail TMRRC they would be happy to arrange you to visit during a week night operating session, probably at little or no charge (but donations are always appreciated).

The feeling I get is that they think of themsleves as a "Higher Class" group of model railroaders, and in all honesty, they can all get bent..

I wanted to see the layout at one point in time, but since this is their attitude, I won't waste a trip, just to feed the egos of those who are a member of that organization.

So sad...

Otto,

You're not off base. RPI (in my worthless opinion) is a snob school. This policy reflects that too a tee.

The first major flag is charging $30 per hour for a visit, clearly this is intended to discourage any visitors what so ever. They're betting that nobody will want to pay that much, and they're right.

Personally, if I'm going to spend $30 - $45 I could get a lot of layout supplies and locos or cars at the RIT show where I pay a reasonable price to get in and see a nice layout.

Secondly the attitude is terrible, one of the key positives of the model railroading community is stewardship of the hobby and introducing it to others, as many as possible. Its awful that they have built such an amazingly beautiful layout and dont want to show it off.

Otto, just keep up the nice work at RIT and continue to be a good model railroading group. By the way the RIT show was great this year and seems to improve each time I go!

Dave

...What do you think. am I way off base???...

Ummm....In a word Otto ...No.
Maybe the school and the city of Rensselaer, who help fund these "snobs"( its a lot better choice of word than what I'm REALLY thinking... ) should be sent a copy of their drivel,just to see how well it sits with them. Hell, it even makes you wonder why they even bother with open houses, if its so "labor intensive". I've seen all sorts of snobbery and elitism in the hobby before, but this is as insulting , arrogant, miserly and ill tempered as I have EVER seen!!!! "Welcome" to our hobby!!! Sheesh!!!!

In retrospect, this has probably been building up for a while. John Nehrich at one point said (either in an article or on a web site, not sure which) that he'd had to get an unlisted phone number because so many modelers keep trying to contact him. I've simply never heard of anyone else in the hobby reporting that problem -- John Allen was probably the only member of our hobby who had large numbers of folks wanting to see his layout.

I was disappointed to see the Rensselaer club charging membership for the "meat" on its web site, especially after I'd bought their various paper publications.

But bad attitude isn't limited to RPI. The local "Prototype Modelers" in my area are major snobs as well -- those who've been published in the mags pretty much hobnob only with each other (during the lunch breaks, there's a special table at the Sizzler where only the Anointed sit with each other). A well-publlsihed author appears at our local swap meets with his own little entourage of butt-kissers. Once I'd brought a photo of a model I'd done from one of that guy's articles to show to a friend I knew I'd see there. While I was showing it to my friend, this guy sort of came sidling up to see what I was talking about. So I turned, showed it to him, and thanked him for the article that I used to build my model. He came on as though I was some kid who'd done a sloppy crayon drawing, praiing it in a very insincere-sounding way.

As someone else said, I like model railroading, it's model railroaders I don't like.

When our club in Alaska received a grant from the city and free rent for one of their buildings we were required to have open houses for the public. We had two organized open houses one for Model Railroad Week and one for the Anchorage Fur Rendevous. We did not charge admission but we did have spots for donations.

As a club we also let anyone who knocked on the door access to the layout and gave them a tour. It was a method to get new members and donations. We also signed up new modelers and gave them paid clinics on how to build cars, locos, track, buildings and scenery etc.

This is how a club should operate not like the RPI club that Otto quoted. We need to get new blood into the hobby.

Rick

I've been to the Model RR clubs in both Carlstadt and Union and never had I ever had to pay anything near that outrageous or put up with an attitude like that. Perosnally I wouldn't pay past 10 bucks to get in to an of these clubs.

I wouldn't even pay attention to those clubs if the price is outrageous and they feel that they're god's gift to the hobby and have the nerve to act like a bunch of preppy high school cliques when the hobby is trying to get new blood and stay alive. It's segregationists like them that are killing it by driving good people away.

One thing that puzzles me is that the RPI club has a lot of student members. I read over all the angry terms and conditions of their double secret admission policy on their site, and it makes the angry point that they're angry that somebody made an appointment to see the layout and then didn't show up. They're angry. OK, fine -- have a STUDENT be the guy who waits for the appointment. There are advantages there. First, the student can bring a book to study while he or she waits. Nobody shows up, fine, keep on studying. Second, the RPI club has all kinds of ways to earn brownie points in operation. Give the student 200 brownie points for waiting for an appointment. An extra 100 points if nobody shows up.

But also, there are ways you could sell paying $50 or so for a special viewing anyhow. Just put it on the site. "We would prefer that visitors attend one of our scheduled open houses. On occasion, we will show the layout by special arrangement. Visitors for whom we've given such special tours of the layout have normally contributed $50 for the privilege" -- I bet you could massage that wording even better (nobody's paying me to make it that good). And have a STUDENT show the layout.

I think there's a case of oversized ego here, as the others above have remarked.

I agree- they might want to examine the way they deliver their message. I would be more than willing to make a contribution (or spend money at the "hobby shop" at the front of the club room), rather than be quoted a rate schedule. Why not play it up like a railroad? Charge a "coach" or "deluxe" admission, and sell us "tickets" good for "passage" on the NEB&W?

My experience is limited to our small club layout at RIT. We have a lot of student involvement- mostly alumni now, though, but always new students involved and welcomed. I got the impression that the RPI club was short on student involvement- not suprising considering the amount of commitment needed to participate in a project like the Berkshire Lines.

-otto-

I wonder if the RPI club is a non-profit rated with the IRS. Some model railroad clubs are, and to get this category requires certain pre-qualifications to be met. One of those is the purpose of the organization, another is the public access, especially beyond the show dates and also fees, plus other requirements. With their level of fees, I doubt if they have this classification, you indicated they received a local gov't grant, just isn't right, such a shame. I will take them off my list of layouts to see.

I think the RPI club is a student club chartered under their Student Union's rules... not sure how much outside funding they get, or what rules apply.

-otto-