NORAC 282a Advance Approach: Some questions.

Another poster in another forum asked this and it got me curious so I thought I'd ask it in here.

"CROR Rule 409 is Advanced Clear to Stop, and states according to Transport Canada: Proceed, next signal is displaying Clear to Stop, be prepared to stop at second signal."

In USA NORAC 282a (Advance Approach) I think is the same (or very similar) aspect/rule.

I was wondering:

• How frequently is this aspect used?
• What is the typical speed associated with this rule?
• Is it used exclusively only to indicate a train up ahead? If there are other reasons to use it what are they?

Thanks in advance!! [:)]

The original purpose of the "Advance Approach" indication was as an added aspect in multi-block signalling progressions.

By adding a 4th aspect to the traditional "Clear", "Approach", and "Stop" progression, the carriers had a better way of spacing trains in dense traffic areas as well as providing more information to the engine crew to allow better train handling.

The old rule was: Be prepared to stop at second signal. Train exceeding Limited Speed must reduce to Limited Speed; Reduction must commence before passing signal and be completed before accepting a more favorable indication".

Keep in mind that this was part of speed signalling, not route signalling. The information given was strictly confined to what speed at which to proceed, not what route you were going to use. The newer trend of adding route information as used by some carriers has needlessly added an element of confusion, all in the name of speeding up traffic.

Hope this helps.

shlustig wrote:The newer trend of adding route information as used by some carriers has needlessly added an element of confusion, all in the name of speeding up traffic.

I am very much in agreement with this statement. Learning NORAC signals is much simpler and more logical than, say, GCOR. The signal logic incorporated by the western roads in particular is complicated and often illogical, at least from my perspective -- with their combinations of route and speed signalling.

As for the advance approach NORAC signal, we found this to be very helpful in places on the PC/CR Main/Chicago Line for TrailVan trains operating at 70 mph. Often one block was not nearly enough room to get such a train under control for a stop.

A very small change to the defination has occured in NORAC i guess

Advance Approach - Proceed prepared to stop at the SECOND signal. Trains exceeding Limited Speed must begin reduction to Limited Speed as soon as the engine passes the Advance Approach signal.

So you don't have to start slowing down until the engine passes the signal.

Also note that NORAC indications can be and often are modified by TT Special Instructions. For quite a while, Amtrak NEC Ops used the "as soon as engine passes signal" language, while Conrail adopted "before passing signal" in their indications.

At the time, CR senior operations management was more inclined to want earlier operator action, in response to some accidents that may have been prevented with earlier action in this regard.

An advance-approach on the IC is a rarity. They (dispatchers) would much rather give you a hard-yellow and force you to exercise your train-handling abilities. Makes not a whit of difference that this practice increases the amount of time needed to get over the road. Another favorite practice is to run you by a hard-yellow preceding an absolute. It's almost as though they're not sure themselves what their intentions are. The majority of the time the signal will clear up, can you chance it? I don't!

I have also noticed that advanced appraoch is utilized in some areas where there is limited space to park a train at a home/absolute signal, and a crew receiving Advanced Approach would stop at the next signal to prevent unnessecary/excessive blocking of grade crossings even tho the next aspect would be approach.

I work on the D&H. We don't really have very high speeds. I see this signal in places where there are short blocks. At these places, a train traveling at track speed, would not be able to stop with just Approach and Stop.
At one location, there are two Controlled Points, which are about 1/2 a mile apart. The approach to home signals often display this. This is the case if one was to stop, on the main, at the far end of a siding.

Main
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| | \--------------------------------------|-/
Adv. App Approach Siding Stop

This is an example if one was going left to right, on the main.

-Spike