No sanders on VIA locomotives

oleanfuzz wrote:None of the sanders on the F40PH-2 fleet are operational

Does the lack of functional sanders make it hard to start a train when things are slippery? I can't imagine this is a good idea.

My physics prof. last year (who happens to be a train enthusiast), had related to us that his trip the previous winter on The Ocean had been significantly delayed, because they couldn't get the train to start in the heavy snow. He had asked the crew about it, having in mind that they should be using sanders, and they mentioned that the locomotives were not equipped with sand anymore. I had found this hard to believe at the time, but later found it to be true. I would have thought the Ocean already had enough delay problems, and I can't see why they'd want to so obviously add others.

Tadman wrote:Does the lack of functional sanders make it hard to start a train when things are slippery? I can't imagine this is a good idea.

The lack of sanders does indeed pose difficulties, but I guess in VIA's mind it isn't sufficiently problematic to cause them to re-activate them. There have been reports on another site of westbound corridor trains missing the stop of at Guildwood because of the risk of stalling on the nearby grade. There have been many reported problems with the Montreal - Gaspe Chaleur- perhaps I should say the train known as the Chaleur which used to run to Gaspe; it hardly ever does that any more. In fairness, most of the short-turning at New Carlisle or Matapedia is due to track washouts, but in previous autumn seasons there were trains which had to limp back to Matapedia due to leaves on the tracks.

I would think VIA's Canadian train would have the worst problem without sanders in the locos. It just sounds ridiculous not to have them.

jp1822 wrote:I would think VIA's Canadian train would have the worst problem without sanders in the locos. It just sounds ridiculous not to have them.

The F40s are over 20 years old now and have got along just fine without sanders other than the rare occasions noted. If there was an avantage to having them vs. cost and maintenance, I'm sure VIA would have installed them by now or as part of the rebuild programme.

CPRTim wrote: The F40s are over 20 years old now and have got along just fine without sanders other than the rare occasions noted. If there was an avantage to having them vs. cost and maintenance, I'm sure VIA would have installed them by now or as part of the rebuild programme.

So I take it from that then that the rebuilt F40's have no sanders either??

Also, does anyone know about the P42's? I have heard no mention of whether they have sand or not...

Via Rail's F40's originally had sanders but it's been at least 10 years since they have been removed. Via's P42's have never had sand, and F40 rebuilds unfortunately do not include sand. The sand should have never been removed from Via's fleet but the powers to be seemed to think they know more then the people running their trains. Wheel slip and wheel slide have been major issues over the years and at particular times of the year it has been even worse. Several trains over the years have stalled or slid through stations etc, etc, Coming out of Windsor on flat track and not being able to do more than 40 or 50mph hardly sounds like an insignificant issue to me, especially considering the track is good for 95mph! Several people high up in Via maintenance have mentioned that there was serious talk of bringing it back but so far nothing, oh well we'll get there eventually.....I think I can, I think I can, I think I can

viahogger wrote:Via Rail's F40's originally had sanders but it's been at least 10 years since they have been removed. Via's P42's have never had sand, and F40 rebuilds unfortunately do not include sand. The sand should have never been removed from Via's fleet but the powers to be seemed to think they know more then the people running their trains. Wheel slip and wheel slide have been major issues over the years and at particular times of the year it has been even worse. Several trains over the years have stalled or slid through stations etc, etc, Coming out of Windsor on flat track and not being able to do more than 40 or 50mph hardly sounds like an insignificant issue to me, especially considering the track is good for 95mph! Several people high up in Via maintenance have mentioned that there was serious talk of bringing it back but so far nothing, oh well we'll get there eventually.....I think I can, I think I can, I think I can

I wonder if the F40 rebuilds are getting new wheel slip controls so that not having sanders is less of an issue.

Do CN or CP freight service units have sanders? I would assume anything that runs thru to USA has them.

I'm not sure about the freight locos but I expect most, if not all, do have them. When VIA F40's ran to Chicago on the International, a special pool was used with working sanders since it's an FRA requirement. Once Amtrak engines were used exclusively on that train, VIA decomissioned the sanders on their F40s that still had them.

Ken V wrote:I'm not sure about the freight locos but I expect most, if not all, do have them. When VIA F40's ran to Chicago on the International, a special pool was used with working sanders since it's an FRA requirement. Once Amtrak engines were used exclusively on that train, VIA decomissioned the sanders on their F40s that still had them.

My source says YES. Both CN & CP has all their sanders working.

Now, I know a few times in the past ten years, a VIA P40 had to be power on the Maple Leaf to Amsterdam, NY (where it was swapped out by Amtrak at that point). I wonder if they found out the hard way about the sander not working

I would love to have seen a picture of that a VIA P42 pulling amtrak amfleet cars what a weird color scheme that was. I could just see the amtrak engineer jumping out the cab and looking down while shaking his head.. Cursing under his breath !

AgentSkelly wrote: My source says YES. Both CN & CP has all their sanders working.

Whether or not they actually have sand in them it a different story. CN, in its ever continuing quest to increase dividends for its shareholders no matter what, is no longer filling the sand tanks on locomotives when they run out. They send trains with maxed out tonnage, with barely enough power to get the train over the road in dry rail conditions. The computer system calculates the pulling power of the locomotives, on dry rail with sand. So when the train stalls because it can't get any traction they blame the engineer because the computer shows the train as having enough power to make it. "The computer shows that you have more than enough power to pull that train, you're just trying to steal time from the company".

So true... when I get sent out to fix a locomotive that won't load properly, half the time it's because there's no sand in the unit!! The wheelslip system has stages, and it's designed to work with sand applied to the rails...

If you don't put sand in it... how is the thing supposed to work properly?? It doesn't. So I tell them it's because it's out of sand. Do the higher-ups get sand put in it? Ha ha ha... no.

CN Sparky wrote:So true... when I get sent out to fix a locomotive that won't load properly, half the time it's because there's no sand in the unit!! The wheelslip system has stages, and it's designed to work with sand applied to the rails...

If you don't put sand in it... how is the thing supposed to work properly?? It doesn't. So I tell them it's because it's out of sand. Do the higher-ups get sand put in it? Ha ha ha... no.

and then they wonder why the loco starts sliding backwards down the hill with the throttle at 8. stupid management.