NJT HOBOKEN TERMINAL ACCIDENT THREAD

[Noel Weaver]

I can think of five or six different possibilities that COULD have caused this terrible event. I will not post them on here and really I can not speculate as to exactly what happened either. Prayers to all passengers, families, employees, investigators, officials and others involved here.
Noel Weaver

[RWERN]

from http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2016 ... _big-photo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The train went over the front bumper block, through the concourse where travelers access other lines and rested at the wall to the waiting room, Larson said.

So it sounds like the train is up against the wall of the main terminal building, but we don't know if it hit that wall with any force to do any damage to the historic terminal (in addition to destroying the outdoor concourse and the roof over it.) JS

Given that the photos clearly show that the main carbody is not in contact with the wall, it would seem as though any physical strike of the wall would likely be from the coupler and diaphragm only as it seems improbable the whole car would simply rebound off the wall after hitting it.

Also, the area the car struck would be the ticket agent office and not the main waiting area. All things considered, it could have been a far worse tragedy.

[CarterB]

Just because the wires were disconnected from the high voltage source, if they were not directly connected to ground, you really don't know what the voltage on the wires is. DI am surprised that the live catenary didn't become an issue.
Highly unlikely to be an issue other than confirmation as a safety precaution that wires not energized. The traction power protection system relaying would immediately trip the breakers upon detection of the fault.
Even if wires were not energized, does not mean they were grounded.

There can/could also be 'back feed' into ANY downed/compromised power lines (catenary or otherwise) that may happen to have backup generator or battery backup sources.
ANY downed electric wires should be considered LIVE until proper authorities give a CLEAR to operational/rescue personnel.
This is the FIRST thing we are taught in Emergency Management classes about electric hazards.

[Nasadowsk]

It's a similar effect as in the olden days when you opened the back of your TV, etc, to change vacuum tubes to try to fix your set if it isn't working right (if you're old enough you remember taking the tubes down to the tester at the drugstore...). Even with the set unplugged, the power supply or HV capacitors could still be charged

I have a '52 Bendix that's even more evil - it'll actually build a bit of a charge up with time. The culprit is the HV filtering cap, not the CRT.

Most sets, you ground the HV terminal and that's that. I always worried more about the horizontal output tube though, which can nail you really bad...

[danib62]

CBSN is reporting that the numbers are down to at least 1 dead and 74 injured.

Of Course CBS News was already speculating that seat belts would have prevented the injuries...

I heard that too and wanted to mash my head into my keyboard... Makes you stop and think about how good the mainstream media is at covering things you don't know a lot about...

[MCL1981]

I wonder if all the gloating politicians and reporters that regularly travel the NEC would every put a seatbelt on if the train had them? They'd be the last ones to use them, and would complain the entire time. Then we'd hear about "safety run amuck"

[2nd trick op]

The orgy of hype, finger-ponting and second-guessing by politically-driven trolls and the security-obsessed is already under way.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jers ... st45652985" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sickening!

[Limited-Clear]

Just to clarify Ptc would not prevent this type of accident, it is an overlay to the existing signaling system and designed to enforce Maximum Authorised Speed (MAS) and also prevent signal violations, it would have kept the speed to the timetabled speed in the terminal but would not stop the train before reaching the bumper.

[Cab Car 424]

A thought; Could the train have lost its brakes due to excessive braking while coming through the switch yard approaching the terminal? I understand that excessive braking can cause air reservoirs to become low or depleted as the demand for air from the reservoir cannot keep up with the compressors pumping air into them.

CP

If that were the case he/she could throw it into emergency.

[Cab Car 424]

15 MPH track speed from Terminal Int. to the depot. Before that 30 MPH.
Auto train control; Auto speed control; cab signals; I guess the system would allow for 20 MPH before going into penalty.
Don't know if a train at that speed has enough momentum. I guess it does.
The event recorder will tell a lot.

[STrRedWolf]

NPR is taking the sane approach on this story:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... t=20160929" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[STrRedWolf]

NJ Transit just posted their service plan for the afternoon, which is what I was wondering about.

http://www.njtransit.com/sa/sa_servlet. ... iceId=2468" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In short: limited diesel service starting at 4pm. Main, Bergen, Passaic, and Port Jervis trains on weekend schedule at Secaucus. Electric service will make more stops to help handle the load. Cross honoring for Metro North customers on the Hudson line, w/buses to bridge to stops.

[MCL1981]

Look at the idiots. Posing for photos and selfies in the middle of a crash scene evacuation. If I was evacuating that train behind them, I might accidentally trip on a rail and knock them all over.

[John_Perkowski]

For those of you on facebook, National Public Radio just did a newsroom update. Here's the link

[litz]

Very sobering accident ... shows quite clearly the massive kinetic energy in a moving train.

Would be an interesting comparison to see how the bumper + platform would have fared if hit by the locomotive (as it has a much more substantial frame + twice the weight) directly, vs the cab car.

Luckily, this train was cab car forward ... if the locomotive had been leading, we'd be talking about a diesel spill, and likely fire/fireball right now.

As it is, the pictures show just stunning damage. That's not going to be something cleaned up overnight.