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  • NJT HOBOKEN TERMINAL ACCIDENT THREAD

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a

 #1402818  by Steampowered
 
mohawkrailfan wrote:Oddly, Departure Vision shows the usual Hoboken departures moving normally. 415 seems to have made Millburn.1611. Is it lying?

Amtrak did the same with the philly crash. I think they just let the schedule continue, because no one is going on any trains
Last edited by Steampowered on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1402826  by Ken W2KB
 
truck6018 wrote:
Ken W2KB wrote:
CAR_FLOATER wrote:I am surprised that the live catenary didn't become an issue.
Highly unlikely to be an issue other than confirmation as a safety precaution that wires not energized. The traction power protection system relaying would immediately trip the breakers upon detection of the fault.
Even if the wires were not energized, does not mean they were grounded.
If not energized there is no potential difference (i.e., Voltage difference) between them and ground so not an electrical hazard.
 #1402831  by Bart78
 
CAR_FLOATER wrote:Looks like they are already going to start to play the blame game, specifically in regards to PTC.......This is copied directly from MSN's live feed - "Commuter train that crashed into New Jersey Transit's Hoboken terminal was not equipped with positive train control technology - NBC News"
That was the headline that sent me over here for some rational discussion of this horrible situation that has resulted in deaths and significant injury. The media immediately went to the blame game with that headline with little understanding of the reality of where PTC stands as to implementation anywhere.

Just a personal data check here: it's my understanding that most of the NE has been very challenging for PTC implementation due to inability to identify radio frequencies that are available and that the FCC would approve for that use. Is this a correct understanding? If so, is this any closer to resolution?
 #1402836  by n2cbo
 
Ken W2KB wrote:
truck6018 wrote:
Ken W2KB wrote:
CAR_FLOATER wrote:I am surprised that the live catenary didn't become an issue.
Highly unlikely to be an issue other than confirmation as a safety precaution that wires not energized. The traction power protection system relaying would immediately trip the breakers upon detection of the fault.
Even if the wires were not energized, does not mean they were grounded.
If not energized there is no potential difference (i.e., Voltage difference) between them and ground so not an electrical hazard.
Yes, but grounding them prevents someone from energizing them.
 #1402837  by n2cbo
 
MCL1981 wrote:
CAR_FLOATER wrote:Looks like they are already going to start to play the blame game, specifically in regards to PTC.......This is copied directly from MSN's live feed - "Commuter train that crashed into New Jersey Transit's Hoboken terminal was not equipped with positive train control technology - NBC News"
Well that's a new record time for an unrelated system to be blamed for something it has nothing to do with. Coming up next, a politician will cry that something must be done, demand change, call for new regulations, and cite statistics from a lobbyist about saving lives. Meanwhile, there was probably just a grade crossing accident somewhere with a pile of bodies that nobody noticed.
Of Course CBS News was already speculating that seat belts would have prevented the injuries...
 #1402838  by STrRedWolf
 
Are they terminating Hoboken bound trains at Newark Broad Street, Newark Penn, and Secaucus Junction due to this, or are those trains cancelled? It's not quite that clear.

Admin edit:

Here is the latest, 20 minutes old:
Travel Alerts
Sep 29, 2016 12:33:48 PM
Rail service remains suspended in and out of Hoboken due to a train accident at Hoboken station. NJT bus and private carriers are honoring NJT rail tickets and passes.

All PATH service at Hoboken station is suspended.

NY Waterway ferry is accepting rail tickets and passes as a result of a train accident at Hoboken station.
http://www.njtransit.com/sa/sa_servlet. ... elLine=MNE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I infer there is NO service on this routing. Naugatroll? Thoughts?
 #1402841  by khecht
 
CNN is reporting that the female fatality was on the platform rather than on the incident train. I assume there will turn out to be more platform injuries but it appears that she was the only fatality.
 #1402842  by Jeff Smith
 
Apologies; I've redacted the comments on moderation including my own. Please contact me via PM if you have comments. To clarify, all we are asking for is perspective and discretion. This job isn't easy and sometimes we are stricter on this type of topic. Bear with us.
 #1402844  by JimBoylan
 
From njtransit.com/AdminTemp/pvlwkday51516.pdf, Train 1614 leaves Spring Valley, N.Y. at 7:23 a.m., makes all stops, and arrives at Hoboken, N.J. at 8:38 a.m.
Attachments:
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Last edited by JimBoylan on Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1402845  by pumpers
 
from http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2016 ... _big-photo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The train went over the front bumper block, through the concourse where travelers access other lines and rested at the wall to the waiting room, Larson said.
So it sounds like the train is up against the wall of the main terminal building, but we don't know if it hit that wall with any force to do any damage to the historic terminal (in addition to destroying the outdoor concourse and the roof over it.) JS
 #1402846  by GirlOnTheTrain
 
Metro-North sent an alert email that PVL & PJL tickets will be cross honored on the Hudson Line until further notice. Otherwise this isn't particularly my area unless I go up the street to Nanuet later!
 #1402848  by pumpers
 
truck6018 wrote:
Ken W2KB wrote:
CAR_FLOATER wrote:I am surprised that the live catenary didn't become an issue.
Highly unlikely to be an issue other than confirmation as a safety precaution that wires not energized. The traction power protection system relaying would immediately trip the breakers upon detection of the fault.
Even if the wires were not energized, does not mean they were grounded.
Just because the wires were disconnected from the high voltage source, if they were not directly connected to ground, you really don't know what the voltage on the wires is. Due to stray leakage from nearby high voltages, or residual charged capacitances, the voltage could be anywhere between the high voltage and zero (ground). If the wires were still charged to some high voltage, you couldn't pull a lot of current out of it and power anything, but the residual charge could easily be enough to hurt someone badly. That's why you ground the wire, to be sure it is at zero volts compared to ground.

It's a similar effect as in the olden days when you opened the back of your TV, etc, to change vacuum tubes to try to fix your set if it isn't working right (if you're old enough you remember taking the tubes down to the tester at the drugstore...). Even with the set unplugged, the power supply or HV capacitors could still be charged, and if you accidentally shorted them it was more than enough to scare the .... out of you, literally, at a minimum, and it could easily do far worse than that. Any TV repairman would tell you the golden rule was only one hand inside the set at a time (so you didn't accidentally put high voltage on one hand and ground on the other). JS
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