• NJ announces 2021 rail construction grants

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

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  by JohnFromJersey
 
Pretty weird that NJSL will be landlocked between Woodmansie and D&D/Conrail. Where will they store engines and the like, much less railrcars? Do you think they'll ever try and pursue a Winslow connection?
  by R&DB
 
JohnFromJersey wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:41 pm Pretty weird that NJSL will be landlocked between Woodmansie and D&D/Conrail. Where will they store engines and the like, much less railrcars? Do you think they'll ever try and pursue a Winslow connection?
NJSL has nothing to do with the grant to D&D. The Conrail Southern Secondary runs from Red Bank to Lakehurst. From Lakehurst to the sand plant in Woodmansie is owned by Clayton sand. NJSL is the designated operator (by Clayton) of that track. The track from Woodmansie to Winslow is owned by NJDOT and has no possible rail customers. Why would anyone want to re-connect? NJSL will apparently interchange with D&D at Lakehurst.
  by Ken W2KB
 
R&DB wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:07 am
JohnFromJersey wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:41 pm Pretty weird that NJSL will be landlocked between Woodmansie and D&D/Conrail. Where will they store engines and the like, much less railrcars? Do you think they'll ever try and pursue a Winslow connection?
NJSL has nothing to do with the grant to D&D. The Conrail Southern Secondary runs from Red Bank to Lakehurst. From Lakehurst to the sand plant in Woodmansie is owned by Clayton sand. NJSL is the designated operator (by Clayton) of that track. The track from Woodmansie to Winslow is owned by NJDOT and has no possible rail customers. Why would anyone want to re-connect? NJSL will apparently interchange with D&D at Lakehurst.
Yes, or Clayton will terminate the contract with NJSL and contract with D&D, whichever operator is most economic determined by Clayton's business analysis.
  by Tanker1497
 
"NJSL will apparently interchange with D&D at Lakehurst"
IMHO there is little reason to keep NJSL for Clayton. They will become nothing more than a middle man! The D&D hands down will surely be much cheaper than the NJSL's. I remember reading that Clayton just extended NJSL's for 10 months? This all won't be close to becoming complete for 2 years. Now if they start moving sand with CSAO still in control then yeas NJSL's would be the interchange at Lakehurst. CASO wants nothing to do with this area of NJ
That was quite apparent when they made a deal with 84 lumber to charge less for the other 84 lumber rail location and let them truck it to Toms River. Suburban propane just got the bad end of the stick they were told that CASO was no longer delivering one car customer bi weekly as an only customer.
  by R&DB
 
A little back-up here. We are talking about two different situations.

1> NJDOT / NJT owns the FIT, the Amboy Secondary, the Southern Secondary and the TRIT. Conrail Shared Assets has a contract with DOT / NJT to provide the freight service on those lines. CSAO under this contract has the right to transfer the operating rights to another operator, which means they could also sub-contract it. Since they do not seem to want to operate in this section of NJ so they have chosen D&D to be the operator. D&D already operates the freight on a lot of NS and NJT owned trackage in Northern NJ.

2> Clayton Sand owns the RoW and track from Lakehurst to Woodmansie. It is not part of the Southern Secondary. They have contracted NJSL to operate their line. That contract pre-dates the creation of D&D.

The only common thing between these two situations is the fact that they connect in Lakehurst and that any traffic to/from NJSL must pass through that intersection. Clayton may indeed change contractor or they may not. Time and money will tell.

The 2021 grant (the topic of this discussion) has NOTHING to do with Clayton/NJSL. That discussion belongs elsewhere on the forum. This is just observation , not attack on any particular poster.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Tanker1497 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:57 am "NJSL will apparently interchange with D&D at Lakehurst"
IMHO there is little reason to keep NJSL for Clayton. They will become nothing more than a middle man! The D&D hands down will surely be much cheaper than the NJSL's. I remember reading that Clayton just extended NJSL's for 10 months? This all won't be close to becoming complete for 2 years. Now if they start moving sand with CSAO still in control then yeas NJSL's would be the interchange at Lakehurst. CASO wants nothing to do with this area of NJ
That was quite apparent when they made a deal with 84 lumber to charge less for the other 84 lumber rail location and let them truck it to Toms River. Suburban propane just got the bad end of the stick they were told that CASO was no longer delivering one car customer bi weekly as an only customer.
If CSAO will not be the operator of the Southern anymore, will that mean their contract with 84 Lumber will probably be defunct as well, meaning we might see some activity on the TRIT again??
  by Tanker1497
 
Took a ride yesterday to view the FIT from Freehold to Farmingdale via any street it crossed. It appears to me that the first order will be for legal letters to go out to property owners, that have incroached on the ROW. Not sure how big ROW is on the FIT but the standard is 25ft either side of center! In that case one such bussiness planted Conifer trees as a view block. The very least they will get timmed on the track side but the tree's are in the right away, and maybe such that the inhibit the rebuild of the track. Some spots company sign's have been erected as well cleary not in a way to affect the train, but clearly in the ROW. And Stavola road entrance is within a few feet of the track, again unless someone parks there it has little affect on the train. I will make the same trip today and try to remember my camera this time.
  by R&DB
 
Re: NJ announces 2021 rail construction grants
#1569162 by Tanker1497
Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:21 am
Best I can tell the RoW over the entire OOS section is 40 feet wide, 20 feet each side from centerline. (Google maps and zoom in till you see the lot lines)
  by CJPat
 
What 84 Lumber are you referring to? The only one in the general area is at the corner of rt 70 & rt 9 in Lakewood. The one at the rt 33/rt34 overpass over the Southern in Wall Twp closed many years ago and became a recycling/salvage place. The next nearest one is in Manahawkin.

Are you referring to Builder's General along Rt 37 where the spur to the former Ciba Geigy crosses? They also had the facility in Little Silver along the Coastline that also lost rail service. I think both facilities receive their supplies via trucking in from their Freehold facility along the FIT.
  by Tanker1497
 
What 84 Lumber are you referring to?
Yes Builders general.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
CJPat wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:54 am Are you referring to Builder's General along Rt 37 where the spur to the former Ciba Geigy crosses? They also had the facility in Little Silver along the Coastline that also lost rail service. I think both facilities receive their supplies via trucking in from their Freehold facility along the FIT.
Yes, I am. It's been said multiple times that Conrail had a deal with Builder's General Freehold, where, in return for Conrail ending their service on the TRIT, they would pay for the trucking costs from Freehold-Toms River.

Now that Conrail is soon to be out of the picture on the SOUS and assumably TRIT, does that mean Builder's General in Toms River might starting getting cars again?
  by pdtrains
 
Depends on what it costs to truck the lumber to the place on the TRIT. If it ends up being cheaper for C&D to take the RR cars to a rehabbed TRIT.. then i expect it will happen....
I expect...
The state will have to pay for the TRIT rehab
There would have to be more than 1 consignee on the line..
  by JohnFromJersey
 
pdtrains wrote: Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:13 pm Depends on what it costs to truck the lumber to the place on the TRIT. If it ends up being cheaper for C&D to take the RR cars to a rehabbed TRIT.. then i expect it will happen....
I expect...
The state will have to pay for the TRIT rehab
There would have to be more than 1 consignee on the line..
If "There would have to be more than 1 consignee on the line.." means what I think it means, this could potentially be where CMSL comes into play.

In addition, according to the TRIT thread, there is upcoming crossing work for a major road down there.
  by R&DB
 
The grant specifically says this is Phase 1. It does not mention the TRIT. It does state re-connection from Lakewood to Lakehurst. (Assumption CMSL)
So we wonder what Phase 2 (or more) includes. I personally would like to see the FIT, SOUS and TRIT open and operating at FRA Class 2.
BTW there are at least 2 potential consignees on the TRIT, Builders General and Columbia Propane. Both have sidings.
  by CJPat
 
Is Columbia Propane still a viable customer? They have their 10-15K gal large tanks still out there, but there is no showroom or office (not sure if they previously had one). Do they even own the property anymore. At best, it would serve as a distribution center for trucks if there is still a demand. Tanks or filling station hasn't been used in 12+ years, which would then require refurbishment. with all the housing that is out there, I don't know if they could get the hazardous permits required anymore. Probably nobody around them in the 80's & '90's. Now it's getting quite crowded, especially if you count the strip mall right next to it.

With the expansion of Natural Gas to all the housing and with Blue Rhino now so prevalent instead of refill stores for the barbeque, the places that with the small tanks that do refills have been disappearing so I am not sure what customer base there is for bulk propane delivery (used to be used by many farms back in the day for heating their chicken houses).

Anybody have a feel for this type of commodity?

What I can envision would be for a Home Depot or Lowes Distribution center to open on Rt 37 so the trucking of materials can be closer to reduce transport costs to the individual stores. That's basically what I believe Woodhaven does in Lakewood, although I can't say for sure if they are distributing their materials to their Pt Pleasant yard or their Manahawkin yard (although it would make sense if they did).
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